non conventional middle of the back holsters

This is a discussion on non conventional middle of the back holsters within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Guns and more Help me out here. I put my hand behind my back. The "natural" way ends with my thumb up ...

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Thread: non conventional middle of the back holsters

  1. #16
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    Help me out here.
    I put my hand behind my back.
    The "natural" way ends with my thumb up and my pinky down.
    (the back of my hand is against my back.)
    So, it seems to me, that a proper SOB should have the grip "down" rather than up.
    When I try your way, it feels un-natural to twist my wrist 180 deg.
    ???


    Ok, mimic a gun with your hand.

    Take the finger gun and place it around 3 o'clock like its in a strong side holster

    Now, without turning your wrist, slide your "gun" to the small of your back...



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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrcholsters View Post
    Here is one that some of my customers like. It is supposed to ride just to the side of your spine.
    Sorry to derail... What firearm is that in the holster?
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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  4. #18
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    Sorry to derail... What firearm is that in the holster?
    Definitely an older Para, looks like a P10

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  5. #19
    Member Array Backroad's Avatar
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    I still own (but do not use) a Galco that holds the gun in a horizontal position.

    al
    "gettin' there is half the fun."

  6. #20
    Member Array jrcholsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    Sorry to derail... What firearm is that in the holster?
    Yep, it's an older P10 that I tuned up years ago. I keep telling myself I am going to retire it, but there it always is.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. George Orwell
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Haystacker's Avatar
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    JRC - that is a great looking holster.
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  8. #22
    Member Array jrcholsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haystacker View Post
    JRC - that is a great looking holster.
    Thanks! I appreciate that coming from another craftsman.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. George Orwell
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Ok, mimic a gun with your hand.

    Take the finger gun and place it around 3 o'clock like its in a strong side holster

    Now, without turning your wrist, slide your "gun" to the small of your back...
    Take your hand and hold it behind your back as if you were going to be tied up.
    I'll bet the natural way is with the palms out.
    That's my point, I know how I could reach for a SOB firearm, I'm saying it's more natural if the grip were down.
    I will concede that you'd have to put your hand between your back and the firearm to access the gun, but SOB isn't exactly built for quick draw anyway. Maybe it's the mechanics of the belt loops being on the side you want your hand over.

    If everyone disagrees, then it's just me, maybe my wrist isn't as flexible anymore.

  10. #24
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    Take your hand and hold it behind your back as if you were going to be tied up.
    I'll bet the natural way is with the palms out.
    That's my point, I know how I could reach for a SOB firearm, I'm saying it's more natural if the grip were down.
    I will concede that you'd have to put your hand between your back and the firearm to access the gun, but SOB isn't exactly built for quick draw anyway. Maybe it's the mechanics of the belt loops being on the side you want your hand over.

    If everyone disagrees, then it's just me, maybe my wrist isn't as flexible anymore.
    My issue with the palm out Cavalry draw (aside from the potential to sweep oneself) is that there seems to be a lot of excess movement when compared to the palm in draw. Palm in, you reach back, grab the gun, draw and present it. Palm out has you rotating the wrist, chicken winging the elbow, grabbing/drawing rotating the wrist again, and presenting. Efficiency wise, the palm in is a little more smooth / less complicated of a draw stroke. As for being tied up, sure that's more of a natural orientation, but we're not talking about being tied up, we're talking about drawing a firearm.

  11. #25
    Member Array jrcholsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    Take your hand and hold it behind your back as if you were going to be tied up.
    I'll bet the natural way is with the palms out.
    That's my point, I know how I could reach for a SOB firearm, I'm saying it's more natural if the grip were down.
    I will concede that you'd have to put your hand between your back and the firearm to access the gun, but SOB isn't exactly built for quick draw anyway. Maybe it's the mechanics of the belt loops being on the side you want your hand over.

    If everyone disagrees, then it's just me, maybe my wrist isn't as flexible anymore.
    Actually, I don't disagree with you at all. It just makes people cringe as in the minds eye, your sweeping yourself with the muzzle. From a purely technical standpoint, it would be a little trickier to build a holster properly, but not at all impossible. I guess most holster makers would consider it a liability issue. Some wouldn't.
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  12. #26
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrcholsters View Post
    Actually, I don't disagree with you at all. It just makes people cringe as in the minds eye, your sweeping yourself with the muzzle. From a purely technical standpoint, it would be a little trickier to build a holster properly, but not at all impossible. I guess most holster makers would consider it a liability issue. Some wouldn't.
    Bingo. I carry and 30% of time in a SOB holster and have drawn from that in a crisis situation, from a seated position no less. As jrcholsters says about sweeping yourself with a palm out position. In that position once you cleared the holster you would naturally begin to rotate clockwise and pull upp and to the strong side bring the barrell right across your hip with your trigger finger and shirt (if it's tuckable, even more so) as possible entanglements with the trigger.

    A palm in position cause the barrell to naturally come away from your body due to the "unnatural" twisting of your wrist in a clockwise position to grab the grip. So, as you come around to present the weapon you don't sweep yourself. OMOYMMV
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  13. #27
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    JUST FYI ~

    non conventional middle of the back holsters

    Actually the "straight up & down" vertical muzzle down the butt-crack S.O.B. holster would be the non-conventional holster.


    The proper, traditional, acceptable, and far more prevalent ones look like this or like the Galco SOB shown above:

    limatunes and Randall757 like this.

  14. #28
    Member Array jrcholsters's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=QKShooter;1983543]JUST FYI ~

    non conventional middle of the back holsters

    Actually the "straight up & down" vertical muzzle down the butt-crack S.O.B. holster would be the non-conventional holster.


    The proper, traditional, acceptable, and far more prevalent ones look like this or like the Galco SOB shown above:

    Correct, this is the more common way. I had a Galco years ago that laid the gun horizontal with the belt. I hated it, it made the butt of the gun stick out like I had a tumor. The CP1 that I make and carry is a muzzle down version. Like I posted earlier, this makes it a lot harder to sweep yourself, though it is a slow draw. I typically only carry this way when I need to be sure it won't print.
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  15. #29
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    Help me out here.
    I put my hand behind my back.
    The "natural" way ends with my thumb up and my pinky down.
    (the back of my hand is against my back.)
    So, it seems to me, that a proper SOB should have the grip "down" rather than up.
    When I try your way, it feels un-natural to twist my wrist 180 deg.
    ???
    Reach behind you like you're going to scratch your back at the beltline. Now put a grip there and pull. Very natural and safe.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Palm out has you rotating the wrist,
    Not my wrist, no twist at all.
    chicken winging the elbow,
    Good point, my elbow does stick out.
    grabbing/drawing rotating the wrist again, and presenting. Efficiency wise, the palm in is a little more smooth / less complicated of a draw stroke.
    I'll have to give it a try some more.
    As for being tied up, sure that's more of a natural orientation, but we're not talking about being tied up, we're talking about drawing a firearm.
    I was looking for a simple example to describe the motion, I guess I failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by rolyat63 View Post
    A palm in position cause the barrel to naturally come away from your body due to the "unnatural" twisting of your wrist in a clockwise position to grab the grip. So, as you come around to present the weapon you don't sweep yourself.
    Thanks, makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrcholsters View Post
    Actually, I don't disagree with you at all. It just makes people cringe as in the minds eye, your sweeping yourself with the muzzle.
    I tried a few moves, and yes, I would sweep across my hip.
    The palm out is more comfortable for me, perhaps due to my ample girth, it seems to put less strain on my shoulder.

    Thanks to all who thought along with me.

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