retention for cpl
This is a discussion on retention for cpl within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been using an IWB for work. They have since decided that they want us to use a holster with a retention strap or device.
August 26th, 2006 10:10 AM
retention for cpl
I've been using an IWB for work. They have since decided that they want us to use a holster with a retention strap or device.
They=my boss and other people who are clueless . I do private security in a 950,000 sq.' condo complex in a downtown area,many private vendors, offices and campus areas for MSU and Ferris. One big problem is that there is a bar in the lobby,bad,bad, many conflicts of intersest. In the past we've had many drug stings and prostitution busts. This is the mood of the building, drugs, money, fun,fun party land. There is alot of money, nice cars , flashy people. The surrounding area is very poor so we get alot of problems with theft and vagrants, not to mention the domestic problems inside the building. The fun part is I work third shift ,alone with no back up. Except for the under funded city pd, who have saved my butt a few times butt I can't count on them all the time as they are very overloaded with our growing city's new problems.
Does anyone use a strap on thier carry rig ? Does it slow your draw or re-holster, does it get in the way?
I was looking at Bianchi's new retention system that doesn't require a strap. This seems to solve the problem but I'm not sure if I really like something that close to my trigger, I think it locks on to the trigger gaurd. Does anyone know anything about this holster?
I do get into and brake up alot of fights at work. I am very concerned about someone getting my pistol. In the middle of the contact some people have discovered my pistol. Normally it's a wake up call out of thier drunken stupidity as to how serious thier actions could be. Sooner or later someone will try to get it away.
I'm not saying that a strap could really provide alot of security but it could give one a little piece of mind. But in this peace of mind does one slow thier draw thereby hindering reaction time? Any holster ideas? Combinations of good ,smooth draw with retention ability?
Again, I thank everyone. It's nice to pick your brains.
August 26th, 2006 10:10 AM
August 26th, 2006 10:48 AM
I am like most frequenters of this forum: private citizen whose priorities include avoiding situations and places where confrontations are likely. Probably most of us don't like retention gadgets, relying on total concealment so no one knows it's there to grab.
Sound like you don't have the option of avoiding confrontations, however. If I were forced to be frequently involved in disagreements or fights, I would probably want a retention device. I would figure that the probability of someone grabbing it would be much higher that the probability of my drawing it.
Good luck with the job!
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" Patrick Henry (ironically a slave owner), 1775 Mar 23.
August 26th, 2006 11:26 AM
Well I agree with the last poster. MOST CCW Permit holders really dont need a thumb break or other retention device but in your situation I may rethink that. If I were you...Id look at LEO style rigs....single or double retention. They have some very cool stuff out there.
Look around and see what suits your needs........
Shoot well and god bless
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice..........Rush
August 26th, 2006 12:04 PM
I assume you are licensed security officer in your jurisdiction; I would suggest Safariland's SLS line of concealment holsters (from the IWB carry method, sounds as if you do no use a duty belt) or their duty belt counterparts. It takes a little bit of practice to get the gun out of the holster; once you get the muscle memory going, weapon presentation becomes a snap.
Try getting some training in weapon retention, your jurisdiction’s licensing agency should be able to provide you a list of training centers in your area.
August 26th, 2006 12:32 PM
I'm a fed LEO; most agencies (like mine) mandate a thumbbreak on our holsters. As such, I have several holsters for my duty SIGARMS P229 with thumbbreaks....that includes a Ted Block LFI IWB holster with such a device.
As far as I'm concerned, a thumbbreak offers very little, if anything at all, as a retention device. With that in mind, I requested authorization to use a Blackhawk OWB holster with the SERPA retention device which would offer a level (level II I believe) of security retention. The response, according to "black and white" policy was "no," it doesn't have a thumbbreak and our duty holsters must have them....oh well.
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
August 26th, 2006 11:23 PM
Check out a Bianchi CarryLok. Comes in three models, has a fast draw but is secure from a grab attempt. Think this would be the ideal solution for you.
August 27th, 2006 12:47 AM
I have used both the carryloc and the BH serpa. Both seem to add a extra level of retention to the gun, while not slowing the draw.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
August 27th, 2006 01:55 AM
No Retention Strap...
for me. I've had a few, but I didn't like them AT ALL! I rely on good concealment...it works for me!
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
August 27th, 2006 05:00 AM
Thanks for the advice!
Rocky the carryloc release looks like it could be tripped on accident. Does this seem to be the case ? If it holds the gun tight this may be my next holster.
When I carry outside of work I don't use a strap. I keep my pistol hidden well.
As far as weapons retention training goes I train with some of my mma buddies. I use an airsoft gun and let them do thier best to get it away from me. Believe me, they get violent , these guys got some ego problems.
August 27th, 2006 06:32 AM
Well, when I went to the Alleg Cnty Courthouse a while back I must have seen at least 30 BH Serpa type Carbon Fiber retention holsters attached to various LEOs.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
August 27th, 2006 08:25 AM
Yeah, the Serpa might be one of your best holster choices. You CAN teach yourself how to holster with a thumb break by sweeping the strap aside with, either, your muzzle or a straight trigger-finger along the side of the pistol; but, it is an extra step. In a wrestling match that strap over the end of the slide (hammer) isn't going to do much good.
Two thoughts: First, you shouldn't be working alone. If, 'they' are sooo ... concerned about safety, then, why don't they give you a partner and forget about thumb breaks? Second, you really should be carrying a BUG in your front left pocket.
(I presume you, also, carry capsicum spray?)
August 27th, 2006 09:34 AM
Find a quality holster that fits criteria and practice, practice and practice with it....
Remember: Gong Fu = "hard work".....
"Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.
"...be water, my friend."
August 27th, 2006 10:11 AM
The serpa, I've been looking at this concept for some time. My only concern is that it doesn't look like it is concealed easily. I've always been a leather holster kinda guy, seems to form to the body and hide easy.
Now it is between the carrylok or the serpa.What would your choice be?
As far as my work is concerned they'll never pay another gaurd, they wouldn't even buy me a new coat when mine got detroyed when I was attacked by three people about two months ago. (more on that in another post, I don't want to stray to far off topic.) I do carry pepper spray, I had a knife pulled on me a few years back and since then I also carry an asp. BTW Dimmak, bat jam do training in wing chun makes the asp a very usefull tool.
Like he said, and I'm sure we all agree on this point, nothing can replace training. When I was training for rank in wing chun I would train 3-4 hours a day. Now I dry fire practice so much my girlfriend complains about the snap of the hammer fall and when I go to the range I have to lie about how much money I spend on ammo. I do train with the local pd when I can, i've gotten to know them well over the years. Anyone from MI that could point me in the direction of somewhere to train locally?
big thanks, I wish my work was as much help as everyone here.
August 27th, 2006 03:30 PM
By the way, what are you carrying? The more security features you add to a concealed holster, the longer and more difficult it's going to be to draw from. In my (not so humble) opinion just placing the holster and pistol IWB is a form of additional security as well as concealment.
Here's a little tip for ya: Awhile ago I had leather craftsman Matt Del Fatti make a thumb break IWB holster for me that - even though it was definitely slower to draw from - was a lot more secure than an open-top design.
When the thumb break didn't work well for me I sent this holster back to Matt; and, he removed the thumb strap. Matt's workmanship is of such a caliber that you can't even see where the strap(s) used to be. Looks as good as new.
I'll post pictures of both holsters if you like. You might want to consider something like this as an option until, 'the storm blows over'.
August 28th, 2006 07:47 AM
Ghost Who Walks, I carry a sig .226 in .40 for now maybe .357 sig soon. I have a large frame so concealment isn't an issue.
Matt Del Fatti makes some very nice holsters. A buddy bought one awhile back, it made everyone drool. In my search for a good holster I've owned a few and have liked features from most. I've never really used a strap.
I'm looking at the carrylok but I have reservations about anything going inside of my trigger gaurd. I'll be using some sort of owb, iwb is good for concealment. Like I said, I have a large frame and getting my gun back in the holster isn't very easy for me. Reholstering is a concern also then.
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