Holster design: does your maker use real pistols?

Holster design: does your maker use real pistols?

This is a discussion on Holster design: does your maker use real pistols? within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's one that's hard to check out: does your holster maker use real pistols when designing your holster (that is, when making patterns and building ...

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Thread: Holster design: does your maker use real pistols?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array rednichols's Avatar
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    Holster design: does your maker use real pistols?

    Here's one that's hard to check out: does your holster maker use real pistols when designing your holster (that is, when making patterns and building prototypes and testing them), or dummy guns?

    This pic reminded me:

    IMG_8526.jpg

    The maker here (from an album on this forum) has used a blue gun for his pic; and I'm not suggesting, nor do I know otherwise, that the maker has used blue guns for design.

    But it's an easy practice to fall into; a small armory (I had 50 pistols) is expensive to maintain, and one could easily persuade oneself that a blue gun is 'just as good'. But it's not.

    That's because the real-world issues of the pistol are not taken into account with solid castings. Is the holster so tight that the slide moves? Is the holster cut to interfere with the controls; for example, does something flip the safety to off from on, or vice versa? A little bump pop the mag button? The moulding such that it interferes with a trigger, such as a cocked-and-locked 1911? Does a safety strap slip into the trigger guard and interfere with the trigger when holstering? It's a long list; but just imagine combining several of them into a single situation: a 1911's safety gets knocked to fire, a safety strap slips into the trigger guard, BANG! One could only hope the slide was moved out of battery by the tight fit.

    So I don't know how you, as buyers, would ever be able to verify that real pistols are used in the design and testing (and final QC) of your holster, as I'd expect any maker to claim they do, even if they don't. Rest assured the big and medium makers use the real thing, I've been in all their factories. But the little boutique makers? You'll have to wonder. Be careful.

    Certainly one wouldn't want to be the maker defending in a courtroom. Plaintiff's expert would serve the maker's head up on a platter, for using a dummy gun for design and testing (easily proved which is being used).
    Last edited by rednichols; June 18th, 2012 at 10:45 PM.
    Red (Richard) Nichols


  2. #2
    mkh
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    Some of the steps involve wet leather and I don't want wet leather in contact with my gun.

    Personally I have no problems with the use of blue guns.

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    Some valid points there.

    These two have popped up on DC more than a few times in the past.

    > does something flip the safety to off from on, or vice verse?

    > A little bump pop the mag button?
    gunthorp likes this.
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    Member Array Illusive Man's Avatar
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    All else aside, I think it would get very expensive for a holster maker to have to keep a real pistol in stock for every different holster that he makes!
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    Senior Member Array rednichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    Some of the steps involve wet leather and I don't want wet leather in contact with my gun.

    Personally I have no problems with the use of blue guns.
    Non-guns are acceptable as part of the process. They are an unacceptable substitute for all of the process.

    I'm not stating a preference, I'm issuing a warning: relying on non-guns, instead of real ones, is dangerous to the user and the general public.

    This is not like, "I prefer Kydex over leather". This is one element of factual basis of user safety, and injuries, and lawsuits; and my goal on this forum is education.

    Not much fun to sit in a courtroom with the widow. REALLY would not be fun to testify that you didn't use real pistols because you didn't want to get them wet.
    Red (Richard) Nichols

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    P95
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    You can tweak the Kydex to meet your needs.

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    sgb
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    In a perfect world every maker would use real guns and every customer could afford $200 holsters.
    QKShooter, WHEC724 and zonker1986 like this.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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    los
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    In a perfect world every maker would use real guns and every customer could afford $200 holsters.
    In a perfect World, no one would need guns.
    QKShooter and WHEC724 like this.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

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    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by los View Post
    In a perfect World, no one would need guns.
    You of course are absolutely correct
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Seen plenty of ND's from people/Leo's holstering guns with striker fire systems that its not a holster problem but a user problem usually involving a shirt jacket entering trigger guard as the shove the gun in the holster.
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    los
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    red, are all [auto] pistols really created equal??

    Are you stating that there are absolutely no variances in manufacturer to manufacturer slide widths, front sight heights and overall slide-to-frame girths? I'm specifically referring to the 1911 platform.
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

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    Member Array tet4's Avatar
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    Especially for revolvers I'm having a really hard time figuring out what could go wrong with using a blue gun...

    As long as the holster works for me I don't care how it was designed. I certainly dont care if the holster maker used a template downloaded from the internet or borrowed his friend's gun to mold it. I just want it to work.

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    New Member Array Peabo's Avatar
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    Interesting

    In my particular case, I have three holsters for my Keltec PF9. A Crossbreed Mini-Tuck, a CompTac MTAC and a High Noon Hidden Ally. In the case of the Crossbreed and CompTac, the Kydex is perfect on the Crossbreed. Every line and bulge matches my PF9 perfectly. The CompTac was only fair. So if Crossbreed uses blue guns, they are excellent replicas. I can't guess what CompTac uses. Now the PF9 is not a high end gun, but I appreciate that Crossbreed takes the time for excellence even with low end guns!

    I would also like to note that I have a Crossbreed Super Tuck and a CompTac MTAC for my Glock 19. In this case the Kydex shells from both companies are excellent.

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    VIP Member Array Civil_Response's Avatar
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    Too bad you're in Australia, would be interested in your work.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array rednichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Too bad you're in Australia, would be interested in your work.
    You're very kind, and your comment is also spot-on topic: I've not returned to design or building since shifting to Australia because owning handguns here is problematic. Even the moulds require separate import permits and licenses and memberships in Australia.

    If you're interested in what I've done in the past, though, I have several large albums posted on this site. All the Bianchi work was supported by three wall displays packed with contemporary handguns; several hundred in total. Don't take my word for it, ask the many journos who've visited the company over the years (Mass Ayoob comes to mind).

    My own work I've mentioned was supported by the 50 most popular pistols and some revolvers. Remember, by the time I went out on my own to do a Porsche Design-type effort, the dust had settled on the auto vs revolver argument, in favour of the auto-pistol, thanks to the U.S. Armed Forces adoption of the Beretta, and U.S. law enforcement following suit. So my focus, you'll see from my albums, was largely on the autos.

    Several posts mention "fit", and my post is about function; please read my original post again. The typical holster is indeed moulded with a non-gun, and there are several good reasons for that; but a holster can't be 'certified' safe unless the maker is relying on real pistols to prove it to himself. You, as the user, are welcome to 'self-certify', assuming you know what you're looking for (large makers have a large historical database, including lawsuits) but widows care not about such things.
    Red (Richard) Nichols

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