This is a discussion on Blackhawk Serpa Holster within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mg27 I love the serpa, it has a nice release, not a poke sort of release, this one you use your finger ...
Since my last post I've used the ALS by safariland, having experienced both the Serpa and Safariland ALS in a duty style holster, I would reccommend the safariland. If you are looking for concealed carry use, Take a look at SHTF Gear LLC.
I'll relate my experience with these holsters. Our unit when I was in the military bought dozens of them. A lot of guys were using them on thigh rigs, both in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now, in Iraq, for some reason, anytime we were at a base controlled by the Army, you were required to carry a weapon, but it had to have the mag out (in the dustiest, dirtiest place in the world, yeah, let's get all that crap INSIDE the gun) and the safety had to be on. They had armed contract skinnies who would guard the chow hall, exchange, etc. If you were carrying the M9, they just looked at it and made sure the safety was on. Unfortunately, some genius had taken the initiative and got us Glock 19s (this led to all kinds of grief when we were around big bases/conventional forces). So, the contract security dudes would want you to take it to the clearing barrel and verify it was unloaded. We were in Tikrit, STARVING and found one of the chow halls, where we all had to draw our handguns, point them at the clearing barrel and PULL THE TRIGGER to verify they were unloaded (Yes I know, and I'm not gonna talk trash about the Army). Well one guy went to draw his and it wouldn't come out. We stood there for 10 minutes working on it and that thing was stuck. Old boy had to wait while we stuffed our faces and brought him a styrefoam tray. Somehow some crud had gotten in there and that trigger finger release was stuck, for good. The holster was cut to pieces and all the Blackhawk holsters were subsequently rounded up both in Iraq and Afg., stuffed in pelican cases and tossed in storage.
Holster that may not give you the gun back every time is not going to work.
^^^^That tells me someone was not taking care of their gear...
Magazine <> clip - know the difference
martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
Just to clarify, our gear/guns were cleaned and inspected after every op. The offending obstruction would have found it's way into the holster mechanism during the course of one day getting dirty. This was found to be unacceptable and we went back to using the little thumb button/rotating hood.
Yet More SERPA Ban
Last week, the National Park Service banned the use of SERPA-style holsters by any of its more than 2,000 law enforcement personnel. It will come as no surprise to pistol-training.com readers that among the reasons listed was the propensity for accidental discharges, citing multiple instances at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center where such accidents led to property damage and/or injury.More SERPA BanTo everyone who says the safety issue has nothing to do with the holster, puzzle me this:
FLETC, which sees more people from more agencies shoot more types of guns with more types of holsters than probably any training facility in the entire country, specifically sees a greater propensity for the SERPA to cause an accident than other holsters. If it was “going to happen with any holster” why do they see it happening only with the SERPA? Just wild & crazy chance?
More Agencies Ban the SERPAFrom Kyle Defoor‘s blog:
Whoever chose this piece of poop to be issued to anyone- you’re an inexperienced pistol shooter who has no common sense. Hope you got a decent kickback from Blackhawk.
More SERPA = BadProper training is to keep the trigger finger indexed until the sights have aligned on the intended target and the decision to fire has been made. By definition, telling someone to move his trigger finger during the draw, especially when that movement involves applying pressure in the direction of the trigger, is improper training. And hey, look… it leads to accidents! Whodathunkit?
I swear, there are days I think if someone designed a gun with the trigger in front of the muzzle there’d be guys on the internet swearing it was awesome and you just need better safety habits to use it…
Omnibus SERPA ThoughtsAt this point, pistol-training.com is going to follow the lead of other instructors such as Larry Vickers and ban the SERPA (and the various cheap knockoffs on the market) from classes beginning in 2012. I have been suggesting to students that they bring something else to classes up until now and will continue that for anyone who is already registered for a class in 2011.
For some stupid reason, ours is just about the only community on Earth that eschews technological safety. For some reason, many in the shooting world consider safety to be a matter of religion rather than logic. And as such, they would rather condemn the heretical who make mistakes rather than consider if perhaps there are better ways to do things, or better equipment, that might lessen the odds of mistakes in the first place. Imagine if one of your friends said something like, “Only sissies wear seatbelts.” Could you possibly take someone like that seriously?Blackhawk SERPA banned at FLETCIt’s not an all or nothing situation. User error can be induced by poor product design.
Statements/Observations of SERPA Failures "in field" and "training"It is heartening to see that people are starting to realize that maybe, just maybe pushing a button with your index finger under stress is probably a bad idea.
Banning the SERPAThis is just a quick compiled list of several threads over on LightFighter. The vast majority of these fellows are current police/.mil guys who do this stuff for a living - not civilian range queens and the like.
Statements/Observations of SERPA Failures "in field" and "training"
Compiled by Elbows, May 2012
Larry Vickers: Serpas banned from training courses
Gunsite: Serpas not officially banned, but not recommended
source: Cory Trapp of Gunsite
ToddG/Pistol Training: Serpas banned as of this year (2012)
Source: pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » More SERPA = Bad
FLETC: Pending verification, Serpas are banned
Pat Rogers: "serpas suck"
Source: Lightfighter Tactical Forum
Blackhawk Serpa Holster Blackhawk Serpa Holster |
And no one can accuse me of hatin on the SERPA without actually having and using one. I have one, and it is the crappiest holster I have ever owned. There is a much better alternative available with the ALS line of holsters.Conclusion:
As an instructor, a shooter with 30 years of experience, and a person who has twelve years of market testing and evaluation experience, I do not recommend the Blackhawk Serpa Holster to anyone. In my opinion, this holster creates a range safety issue due to having to use force to press a button, which falls in close proximity to the trigger group; and the space between the trigger group and the index point not being sufficient to prevent the shooter from prematurely engaging the trigger. As a result of my experience with the Serpa holster, and this test, the Serpa holster is now banned from my classes. The Serpa holster is becoming such a problem that other training companies are starting to ban the use of it as well.
I havent had any problems and I still cant see how your index finger can slip into the trigger guard. I mean seriously how are guys fingers getting caught up in the trigger guard.
I don't love the Blackhawk Serpa enough to spend time defending it in Forum discussions but I'm reasonably confident that you don't need to shoot yourself in the foot when drawing a gun from one of them.