Unless your life is in danger and I MEAN FROM GREAT BODILY HARM,OR DEATH KEEP YOUR GUN HOLSTERED,getting in a verbal argument and somebody says I oughta kick your ass does not give you an opening to pull a gun,do it and you will not only lose your gun and your permit,but won't be buying any guns in the future if convicted of Aggravated assault etc.
Get your head on straight and READ THIS AGAIN!
Originally Posted by Paymeister
Now, if you still want to carry, then I suggest Appendix carry. I'm 6'5" 150# and I don't have a problem concealing a "fullsize" pistol (Carried a Beretta92 Centurion @ 8 o'clock for over a year and a half, and only got called on it once), though, I usually carry a "mid-size" (Sig P250C or Kahr CW45) at 8-9 under a light button down shirt, and even people who KNOW I carry 20/7 have asked me if I am at that moment. If I needed "deep concealment" I'd go for the Kahr in a front pocket holster.
Thanks for all of the advice. In my job I am directly responsible for making sure employees get paid for their work. Sometimes I have had to take money away because of mistakes they have made that I had to pay another technician to correct. This is company policy, so I don't have a choice in the matter. I have on more than one occasion had a technician confront me and become very irate and combative over this, its just the nature of the business. I am one of the most calm people you will ever meet, my wife jokes that the house could be burning down and I would still be as calm as ever. I absolutely would never use my firearm to "end" a heated argument, but I have nearly been assaulted without even saying a word. Unfortunately this behavior is quite common in my area of work in general, and while I have zero desire to get in a fight with anyone, it is a real possibility. I have changed firms recently so I am going to feel out the situation here before I decide to carry. For now my pistol will remained locked in mynglovebox while I am working. I doubt if I will actually go through with carrying at work, but I always am exploring my option for doing so.
I follow the doctrine quoted below in my daily life. I simply want to be prepared should that fail.
I can LEGALLY carry at my place of employment but am prohibited by company policy. I follow my employer's wishes. I will not risk the well being of my family by risking my employment. I carry everywhere else, and Texas did protect it's CHL holders with parking lot laws last year. That's my choice, and everyone must make their own.
Shadow, good to hear. My words may not have been warranted. Seems your desire for someone to 'admit they were wrong' was more along the lines of getting them to accept company policy docked pay rather than a desire to win an argument. Whew. Apologies if I overstepped myself.
Originally Posted by shadow247
The other thing to consider is that an employee is unlikely to use fisticuffs to kill you: sure, he may want to punch you in the nose and may actually connect, but the setting isn't quite the same as insulting someone at a biker bar. Small comfort and a thin reed to put one's trust in, but in the balance it may be a factor to consider.
Originally Posted by shadow247
Concealment; in each of the desired carry position try and go through a normal range of movement at home to determine how it "prints". The deciding factor for me not to SOB carry is if I have to lean over say to pick up a heavy object off the floor or the 1st shelf at the grocery, it will print really bad to the point any fool could see that your are armed. To me this is the worst case scenario regardless of how you carry from the sides on back. For the most part I lift as if I have a back brace on (good for your back anyway).
Another item for consideration is retention, to me the further back from 3:00 adds to the complexity. Either way please get some training here you can a lot by simple body positioning.
Lastly comfort, personal preference here for sure and SOB might win out.
For me 3:00 wins however I have to carry 3:30, driving or sitting for extended periods @ 3:00 is uncomfortable to painful.
6'1" and 170# carry all day every day IWB at 4-5 o'clock. If you're new to CCW it just takes a bit of time to find the right spot and get used to it. Good belt and good holster is the key.
Your situation sounds like one that needs several fixes, some in your hands and mind and some from the company.
Originally Posted by shadow247
What is in your control are the words you use and means you use to explain the docking. Read the book
Verbal Judo, and then think about how you might change the conversation you have with these people
when you let them know that money has been withheld. There are buzz words and phrases which get people
worked up--- accusatory phrases, "you didn't do the job right" "you screwed up and someone else had to
finish the job," "good technicians don't make that mistake;" even a benign statement such as
"it is company policy it is out of my hands" said in the wrong tone can anger.
I think you have a solvable problem if you think clearly and carefully about how you interact with these
Should it get out of hand, will your company policy allow you to have pepper?
Chances are these guys
aren't armed and at most will kick or swing at you. If you aren't really old or exceptionally small, you'll
survive such an incident and the employee will be gone, not you.
Consider keeping a large 16 ounce cup of water on your desk; if someone swings at you give them a harmless
surprise. It just might take the fight out since these are actually hard working decent people you are dealing
with and not jail scum.
Talk to your supervisor about the situation and ask for advice. Don't put it to him in an accusatory angry manner like,
"I'm really vulnerable and this company policy is putting me in danger." That very same sentence can
be said after some preparatory discussion about how you really like your job but you have a concern and need
their advice. But if it is said straight up it will sound like you want to blame the company and they won't like that.
EVERYONE on this planet loves to give advice. It makes them feel important and honored to be asked. (Just look at this board and my post for the proof).
If you ask your boss for advice instead of for help you will get help. If you ask for the right to carry or for a change in company policy you'll be looking for a new job.
(BTW, this works for job hunting as well. Sometimes if you ask HR at a place for advice, something like, "I know you
folks aren't hiring but I wonder if you have any tips or advice you can give me," you can get past the
"we aren't hiring" sign. ) Again, every human being on earth wants to give advice. It is a deeply engrained
part of the human psyche. Use that to your advantage.
The way it usually goes is this.
I notice an issue with the work, as part of my job is also quality control. I approach the technician, and usually say something like, "Hey Billy, would you mind looking at this Camaro you worked on? It seems like the door is not shutting quite right. Billy looks at the vehicle, says everything looks fine to me, I check it over again and still have the same issue. I approach Billy again, and say, " I appreciate you taking a look at that issue, it seems like the door is still hanging up a bit when opening." From there is when the problems arise. Billy accuses me of being "too picky", says the customer will never notice, things like that. I take the vehicle over to Dan, who refuses to work on the vehicle because Billy has already worked on it. At this point I involve the manager and let him know what I have done up to this point. It is at this point the manager goes to Dan and gets Dan to fix the problem. I am instructed by my manager to make the necessary changes to the repair order to pay Dan for his time while taking that away from Billy. Billy gets his pay sheet at the end of the week, and next thing I know he is in my face screaming. In this case Billy is a 65 year old man with a temper.
Luckily I no longer work with Billy or for that company, but I am working in the same business in the same area. I think I will take the advice of most people here and just leave my pistol in the car. Open carry is legal here in VA, so I don't have much need or desire to conceal otherwise. The main reason for getting my CHP is so that I can open carry, but not have to worry about accidental concealment.
If it is legal to carry somewhere than do so. My wife's job has a pro carry policy, which is strange to find anywhere today. I have caught myself before when I see a sign on a business that I am about to enter that says no weapons allowed, I will simply walk back out to my truck and lock my weapon up. When you say I am going to carry concealed you have the responsibility to do so legally. Please don't be the guy, the one person that messes up COW for all the others in your state.
Here in VA those signs carry no force of law. I can be asked to leave if someone were to notice my weapon and report me, but I can not be arrested for that. The only time that could happen is if I refused to leave, which would get a call to cops, who would again ask me to leave and issue a $25 citation for trespassing. Were I to be belligerent with the officers, and refuse to leave again, they may be within their rights to arrest me, but I have no desire to do that. I will gladly leave if asked, while politely explaining to the management that they will not see me again in their store at all. Then I would happily write a letter to the owners and let them know I am forwarding it to the VCDL, explain how many members are involved with the organization, and advise them of the potential loss of business.
Originally Posted by SIG_guy
Sounds like it might work, if the material is stiff enough, only way to know is to try it. I know exactly what you are talking about. Pretty easy to conceal wearing a great big untucked shirt, but doesn't work in an office environment. Can't have any clips showing.
Have you tried the "crotch sling" type holsters? They're more comfortable anyway, and no shirt tail to get in the way, unless you want it to. They also don't have to be worn in the crotch area, they easily will work at 4 o'clock. Either that or one of the "T-shirt" or "Bra" type holsters. Not as comfortable, but they do work in that situation.
Sounds like your sure going through a lot of trouble to perfect a way of carrying in a place your really not supposed to be carrying. Just leave it in the parking lot locked safely in your car. No need to risk your job or confrontation by an employee. Sounds more like you want to carry just to carry/trying to be badass than carry to protect. Just my .02
If you sew a loop into your pants, it would be best to locate it at the belt loop; otherwise you will sag between loops. Unfortunately this will put the holster right between your cheeks, which may be uncomfortable and a little gross.
Depending on the sewing machine you have, it may not be able to handle passing through multiple layers. I would suggest multiple passes with a satin stitch. Something else to think about is how to hide the back side of the stitching. Even with closely matched thread color, you will see a lump of stitching on the outside of your pants where you have sewn the loops. If you do not go through all the layers to the outside, I would not trust the stitching to hold. I also would not trust hand stitching to hold. I would try to place the stitches at the waistband above where a belt would ride, since you are already planning to wear a belt. I wouldn't put it at the top of the waistband, also for support reasons. At the waistband where it joins to the rest of the pants but above that seam would probably be the best location.
Rivets are an option but the at-home rivet kits aren't great in my experience, and then you'd have a bit of metal poking against your skin. Actually the same would be a problem with a sewn in loop. No matter what the loops are made of, they're going to have edges that will rub against your skin and if you use a heavy duty thread, the stitching itself might chafe (The inside of where my belt loops are sewn on my Carhartts do this).
I would suggest a Remora for two reasons:
1, it can be tucked anywhere, installed quickly if you're not going to be carrying all day.
2, it is a useful tool to try different positions and help make the decision for a more solid holster setup. Mine stays put well no matter where I wear it, but I probably wear my pants a little tighter than you.
As for work ... that's your choice, but personally I err on the side of caution and lock it in my truck. Almost every company I've worked for has a no guns policy. Luckily I can carry at the college I attend, because otherwise that is the LAST parking lot I would leave my gun in my car.
Yeah I'm not worried about leaving it in my car, and again, I'm going to probably err on the side of caution and leave it in the car anyway. My main point in creating this thread was to get some ideas about the loops sewn inside my pants. Now that question has been answered so I think this thread is done. I didn't at all mean to get into the specifics of what goes on at my job, but that is a turn the thread has taken. Thanks for all the advice.