Cavalry Draw - Would you have given him what he wants? - Page 2

Cavalry Draw - Would you have given him what he wants?

This is a discussion on Cavalry Draw - Would you have given him what he wants? within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Rob, Posting questions is how you get to know your customers and their needs. I admire that. What I meant was that I know you ...

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Thread: Cavalry Draw - Would you have given him what he wants?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Rob,
    Posting questions is how you get to know your customers and their needs. I admire that. What I meant was that I know you are concerned with this gent's and others' safety. Just as a conciensious(sp?) bartender knows when to cut someone off in order to prevent a tragedy, so it is with the path you chose. I admire THAT more.

    Dan


  2. #17
    Member Array sevesteen's Avatar
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    You've done well by selling stuff you believe in. If you want to change the "doing well" part, change the "stuff you believe in" part, otherwise...

    In fact, if a similar situation comes up again, I'd say something like "We've built our reputation by selling only what we believe in 100%. You're asking for something I wouldn't be willing to use myself. I think it would be a mistake to reverse a policy that's worked so well to build our business"

  3. #18
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    All companies have policies that are unique to them.That's the American way!You gotta'go with what you think is best for your company and your conscience.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevesteen View Post
    You've done well by selling stuff you believe in. If you want to change the "doing well" part, change the "stuff you believe in" part, otherwise...

    In fact, if a similar situation comes up again, I'd say something like "We've built our reputation by selling only what we believe in 100%. You're asking for something I wouldn't be willing to use myself. I think it would be a mistake to reverse a policy that's worked so well to build our business"
    Very well said.

  5. #20
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    Go to the web & download a free liability waiver - legal document & then have him sign it...and add his drivers license # to it & then make him whatever he wants.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Go to the web & download a free liability waiver - legal document & then have him sign it...and add his drivers license # to it & then make him whatever he wants.
    Well, that's a possible strategy. Not on this one though.

  7. #22
    Member Array Mark Garrity's Avatar
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    Well,
    I have made them as described, and I have turned down requests to make them too. It depends on my familiarity with the customer, and their level of training that I have established that they have. Basically, I will not make them for an internet/mail order customer I have not met face-to-face; unless they are an established trainer or instructor, (most of whom I've met anyway). Yes, we do have the right to play favorites occassionally. I will make them for someone I have met, spoken with, been to the range with and seen shoot, and have established their degree of proficiency and skill with a firearm; and their rationale for wanting to carry that way. As stated, there's nothing to prevent a right-handed shooter from buying a left-handed IWB and wearing it that way anyway; and the maker would never know.

    That said, you can draw from an SOB cavalry position without ever sweeping your own body. This can be done quite easily with practice and training in the proper technique, and proven with a Laser-Max guide-rod equipped pistol. It is merely a matter of drawing the pistol straight up, and moving it to the side of the body muzzle down the entire time and rotating the wrist as it clears the body. The pistol is then in muzzle down strong-side position alongside the body, exactly as it would be positioned in a strong-side hip holster. (You can also draw from a crossdraw holster in a straight line without sweeping the entire room, but that's fodder for another post).
    "He who makes things with his hands is a laborer, he who makes things with his hands and his head is a craftsman, he who makes things with his hands, his head, and his heart is an artist."
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  8. #23
    Member Array ceetee's Avatar
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    In my opinion (worth what you paid for it) you have the right to not make the holster, for whatever reason you deem sufficient. When I go to a restaurant, I expect to eat whatever the chef feels like putting on the menu. If I want a cheesburger, and the chef don't like cheeseburgers, then I'll just have to go someplace else.

    Personally, I think SOB carry can be comfortable for someone who stands all day, but there are too many risks attached, if that somebody is in the line of work where he may have to get in a scuffle with somebody. Cavalry draw was a workable option for a horseback rider carrying a long-barreled revolver who didn't want the square butt banging him in his ribs every step. These days, I think there are better options.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Garrity View Post
    Well,

    ....you can draw from an SOB cavalry position without ever sweeping your own body.
    Yes, you can. Will the average person do so with an adrenaline load?

    Certainly, someone can easily buy a LH holster for RH draw and I'd never know the difference. This customer was very clear as to the purpose and I chose not to provide the holster. If I had brought Tucker into the discussion, he would have flat out said "pass."

    I don't question anyone's decisions on this. I wanted to create debate and comments. You should see my inbox right now.

  10. #25
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    Wink

    Not to dredge up the same old shipwreck out of the ocean but, I still think the dangers of SOB carry are greatly over-exaggerated for the average citizen.

    I'm sure willing to concede that Law Enforcement Officers should refrain from placing anything directly over their spine area since they can expect possible daily scuffles and other higher risks that go "hand in hand" with that job.

    And MAYBE in Winter when it's ICY & slippery...then rethink carrying SOB on those days.

    The last time I fell over backward I was 2 years old and....maybe....that one other time that I woke up with my head in the toilet at some girl's apartment in West Virginia and had no idea how I got there but, that was a very LONG time ago also.

    If I were a pro holster maker I would make a SOB holster for somebody that wanted one.
    Maybe go the liability waiver route and make the customers what they want.

    I, QKShooter am aware of the fact that choosing to wear my firearm in a holster over my spinal area could possibly result in my spine snapping in half like a toothpick, pretzel stick, or a Twix Bar should I ever inadvertently fall over backward. blah blah blah....
    You get the idea.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Well, I'm approaching this as someone who has faced the realities of small business and lawsuits for going on 20 years. You did right. I have often turned down business on the basis of similar fears. He cannot sign anything that will shield you from liability. That piece of paper would be worthless in court. For those of you who feel this is less than right you're correct, it is, but it is also reality. Do you face the possible loss of everything you have and the destruction of your financial future based on making a product you consider risky? On one sale? I doubt that you do. Oh, and incorporating may not shield you these days either. You have to trust that nagging warning at the back of your head.

    I have seen too many folks loose everything the've worked harder than any wage earner to make just because some small person sicced a lawyer on them for something they were unsure about doing but went ahead just for the bucks. I also have met several overseas manufacturers who refuse to sell great products here just because of our product liability environment. Welcome to reality in small business folks!
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Eric Larsen's Avatar
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    From a legal stand point...its a toss up. I used to be a Motorcycle Foundation Safety Instructor/Range Officer for local sport bike racing etc. I know waivers in there most basic form are easily gotten around.
    The main purpose for them, when not written by an attorney and not 20 pages long, is basically to make the public think they have no legal recourse if something stupid happens..
    Thus the age of law suits ensues...........
    Somtimes its better just to say no....Ive done it before and will do it again.
    Usually when you explain that getting a purchase on the gun is questionable at best...most people, Ive dealt with, will find another way.
    shoot well and god bless
    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice..........Rush

  13. #28
    Member Array ceetee's Avatar
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    The main purpose for them, when not written by an attorney and not 20 pages long, is basically to make the public think they have no legal recourse if something stupid happens..
    About right. The only other thing a waiver is good for is to prove to a jury that you warned the signer that he was about to do something risky, that you advised him of what the risks were, and that he chose of his own volition to accept those risks. Sometimes that holds water with a jury, sometimes not.

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Rob:

    I'm not a holster maker and I don't play one on TV.

    But the way I see this one is pretty simple.

    It's your call and you didn't want to. The end.

    You are not under any duty or obligation to make whatever someone wants. It's your equipment, your time, your effort, your know-how, your expertise, your leather, your thread, your machines, your materials, and your reputation.

    If you don't want to, then that's all the reason you need to not do it.

    You can turn down work for a good reason. You can turn down work for a bad reason. You can turn down work for no reason at all.

    And I wouldn't have either, even if I knew how.

  15. #30
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    Howdy!

    I think that turning down this request was certainly the right thing to do. I would absolutely refuse to make such a holster under any circumstances. The potential for injury is simply too great, as is the civil liability. You did the rsponsible thing, IMHO.

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