Small of the Back gun orientation question

Small of the Back gun orientation question

This is a discussion on Small of the Back gun orientation question within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Why is it that all SOTB holsters have the grips up? At least I have never seen one oriented the way I'd like. Right handed ...

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Thread: Small of the Back gun orientation question

  1. #1
    New Member Array bluedoors's Avatar
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    Small of the Back gun orientation question

    Why is it that all SOTB holsters have the grips up? At least I have never seen one oriented the way I'd like.
    Right handed draw..I would like to be able to reach back without twisting my hand upside down...and grip my pistol.
    Holster would have to be decently tight fitted leather or kydex...and pulling it free I would be in a position to shoot
    directly to my left...or turn right 90 and be aimed at whatever had been in front of me.

    Maybe there is some reason I don't understand for guns being holstered in a way that makes a person twist their arm all up.
    Please inform me because I would like to know.

    If someone makes an 'outside the pants-inside the belt' holster like I am looking for, I'd like to know whom.

    Many thanks in advance

    bluedoors


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array StripesDude's Avatar
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    Just curious, but why do you want to carry there? If you are in a struggle and you fall on your back, you may not be able to reach your weapon. You also don't want to fall on a hard gun and have it hit your spine. Best case it hurts really bad, worst case it messes up your back.

    There was a case of self defense a few moths ago....the gentleman shall remain nameless....but he was in an altercation with another man who, according to the court transcripts, was straddling the nameless man and bashing his head into the ground. Had this man been carrying in a small of back holster....well, Sanford Florida may have not had the pleasure of hosting Al Sharpton's crew.
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    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    Its that way IMHO so you can sit down without the grip digging in your butt

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    Member Array Ducmonster's Avatar
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    It seems to me the way you are describing you would be shooting behind your back to immediately shoot to your left. Anyway I think the problem with what you are wanting is that you would end up pointing the gun at yourself as you draw and then try to bring the gun to point forward. Think about it as you pull the gun and then bring it around your body to point forward it would point at your side briefly as you swing it around. With the normal set up as you bring the gun around to the front you naturally point the barrel away from your body.
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    New Member Array bluedoors's Avatar
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    I would like an alternative to carrying at 4 o'clock, actually.
    Summers I am OWB with a Sig P230 and cooler times it is a rather deep carry of an LCP.
    I know that the aforementioned attack shows how a side arm being placed..well..side arm :) is a good idea
    but along with that I am out in the country and not in the city where I am more likely to get jumped.
    I carry a tool that will be pulled out if I need it, this holster would be rather seldom used, and only when I'm
    not going to be sitting down at all.
    Needless, the people that do carry there carry with their piece sitting...upside down...in my estimation.
    I never have carried there and never will if that is all that is available.

    Thanks for the response

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    New Member Array bluedoors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducmonster View Post
    It seems to me the way you are describing you would be shooting behind your back to immediately shoot to your left. Anyway I think the problem with what you are wanting is that you would end up pointing the gun at yourself as you draw and then try to bring the gun to point forward. Think about it as you pull the gun and then bring it around your body to point forward it would point at your side briefly as you swing it around. With the normal set up as you bring the gun around to the front you naturally point the barrel away from your body.
    That is true. I can see that being a training thing to bring the muzzle down as one brings it around from the back. Good consideration....thanks

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    Senior Member Array Smarshe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedoors View Post
    Why is it that all SOTB holsters have the grips up? At least I have never seen one oriented the way I'd like.
    Right handed draw..I would like to be able to reach back without twisting my hand upside down...and grip my pistol.
    Holster would have to be decently tight fitted leather or kydex...and pulling it free I would be in a position to shoot
    directly to my left...or turn right 90 and be aimed at whatever had been in front of me.P

    Maybe there is some reason I don't understand for guns being holstered in a way that makes a person twist their arm all up.
    Please inform me because I would like to know.

    If someone makes an 'outside the pants-inside the belt' holster like I am looking for, I'd like to know whom.

    Many thanks in advance

    bluedoors
    If you are right handed , you need a left handed IWB holster to carry past 3:30 or so.
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    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    Stripesdude, has a point, if you did fall on it would be painfull, very unlikely you would since you know its there. Sometimes it is the perfect spot for concealment, also you can put your hand back there alot more inconspicuously than a straight strong hand draw.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Curt58's Avatar
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    I had one made palm out left hand draw with a 15 degree can't for carrying while riding my motorcycle and it works perfectly. Side Guard Holsters made it for my S&W with a Laser sight.

    I retook some flack from the guys over it but once they saw how easy it was for me to draw with my riding gloves on they shut up. I went with left hand for two reasons,1 I'm ambidextrous and I can draw with my hand on the brake and throttle. I canshift without a clutch and still shift and brake with my right hand. The laser ensure I hit my target. Right or left handed!
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    Although this is an IWB rather than the OWB you were asking about, I thought it was worth mentioning.

    This is what I have several of...SOB, but with a 'palm out' draw. This is quite a different approach from a 'palm in' draw.
    (z) #41 SMALL OF THE BACK CLIP HOLSTER

    Very comfortable...I even have one for my KelTec P-3AT that I use with gym shorts. I can tie the waist string snug and my KT doesn't move. I've used it at the gym when on the treadmill exercising my new hip. The Glock stays hidden in the car while the KT stays with me. I also have this holster type for some of my other firearms that I have used on special occasions.

    I don't wear it on the spine, but rather to the right of the spine, although I personally don't buy the 'fall on your spine' theory. What if you fall on your hip with a regular holster?...drats!
    Muscle memory dictates what body parts you cross when drawing...IMHOYMV

    I wish I could find it, but several years ago there was an article by a group of gun carrying doctors who kind of debunked the fall on your spine theory. They said that they had really not found any 'number' of fall on the spine injuries caused by SOB carry to make it noteworthy. I guess one could say that 'opinions' are like elbows, everyone has a couple of them.

    While I'm sure to have naysayers on the SOB approach, let be clear here...I don't use the SOB on the spine, and I don't use it often...just on a treadmill, on a lawnmower, etc. I can also access my firearm fairly quickly from that holster type. What works for some may not work for others...to each his own approach.

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  11. #11
    Member Array NightOwl76's Avatar
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    I think the main problem with SOB carry is that it's just about the worst place the gun can be in for weapon retention if somebody tries to snatch it. You have pretty much zero leverage with your arm in that position.
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    New Member Array bluedoors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarshe View Post
    If you are right handed , you need a left handed IWB holster to carry past 3:30 or so.
    Would a left handed cross draw, with more cant that normal...like that 15% mentioned, basically place the handle in right hand behind my back?
    The palm out reference I'm not sure of...but having it ride OWB is OK with me. IWB is not absolute.

    Ya'all...it is nice to be able to get some ideas...honest. Huge help. No flames from me :)

  13. #13
    New Member Array bluedoors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightOwl76 View Post
    I think the main problem with SOB carry is that it's just about the worst place the gun can be in for weapon retention if somebody tries to snatch it. You have pretty much zero leverage with your arm in that position.
    I actually can't see how effective my arm is all twisted like most holsters make you either.
    I carry at 4:00 and that is the most contorted I would ever want to be.
    The 'plan'...har...is to be able to grip it, ready, under a jacket and be fully armed with no one knowing I have actually drawn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightOwl76 View Post
    I think the main problem with SOB carry is that it's just about the worst place the gun can be in for weapon retention if somebody tries to snatch it. You have pretty much zero leverage with your arm in that position.
    That's not a problem in FL...no OC
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    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedoors View Post
    Why is it that all SOTB holsters have the grips up? At least I have never seen one oriented the way I'd like.
    Right handed draw..I would like to be able to reach back without twisting my hand upside down...and grip my pistol.
    Holster would have to be decently tight fitted leather or kydex...and pulling it free I would be in a position to shoot
    directly to my left...or turn right 90 and be aimed at whatever had been in front of me.

    Maybe there is some reason I don't understand for guns being holstered in a way that makes a person twist their arm all up.
    Please inform me because I would like to know.

    If someone makes an 'outside the pants-inside the belt' holster like I am looking for, I'd like to know whom.

    Many thanks in advance

    bluedoors
    Two things:
    1: SoB is a lousy place to carry a handgun, firstly. Many people who have carried here over the years have wound up paralyzed from falling on their gun and breaking their back. If you want to carry in that area, I'd recommend the 5 O'clock position for a Righty, or where your kidney is, as opposed to your spine.

    2. The only place I ever see people carry small of back, with grip facing downward, is in movies and TV shows. When I learned to draw from that position (State police instructor and match 1911 target competitor taught me many moons ago) I was taught to remember that drawing the gun is like wiping your behind. flat palm, upward stroke. Remember that and you'll never have to think about how the gun is oriented behind you. I prefer this position because I don't have to try to shove my hand between my clothing or my back, and the grip of the gun to grasp it. I lay my palm on the grip, close my fist, and it's there. As such, and being right handed, the grip is typically facing upward, or to my left from behind.

    In the end, pick whatever works for you, and stick with it. If you prefer the "TV" method of carry, just contact a custom holster maker like Prince Leather, and have him make you one to your specification. He has amazing holsters, by the way, and he's a great guy.
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