Greg Ellifritz on Crap IWB Holsters-What to Look For

Greg Ellifritz on Crap IWB Holsters-What to Look For

This is a discussion on Greg Ellifritz on Crap IWB Holsters-What to Look For within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Everything he mentions are musts on holsters I use: Features to avoid when buying an IWB Holster | Active Response Training...

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Thread: Greg Ellifritz on Crap IWB Holsters-What to Look For

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    Greg Ellifritz on Crap IWB Holsters-What to Look For

    Everything he mentions are musts on holsters I use:
    Features to avoid when buying an IWB Holster | Active Response Training
    "To reject the notion of expertise, and to replace it with a sanctimonious insistence that every person has a right to his or her own opinion, is silly."

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    Thanks for the article! I agree with the author that it is totally amazing that one company can continue over the years to come up with consistently rotten holster designs! The unknowing and unwary or people with very limited funds buy them and that is a true shame.
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    Darn good article. I showed up for my first Tactical Response course with a bottom of the barrel Fobius paddle holster.

    In all fairness to fobius, it did the job for that course, but it was nicely suggested to me that I get a better holster. That mine sucked.

    I was there to learn, so I asked 1. what made it suck? and 2. Which brands did they recommend?

    Just like the author in the linked article said, they went into how that brand & style of holster failed when someone was wrestling over your gun. That there were youtube videos showing the gun & holster being ripped off the gun belts.

    They pretty much recommended Bladetech brand holsters. I have a number of their holsters, and really like them. The Fobius was retired and only comes out for a guest, or range use when I want an extra holster.

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    Senior Member Array cthruit's Avatar
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    I've only bought one Fobus. Threw it away. The gun fit so tight, I couldn't draw. Online/LGS suggestions were to file down the prominent part of the holster and apply lubricants of varying types. I did file and Dremel for a while, but chunked it. I don't hear very much positive about durability, either. They are less expensive, though. But if you buy twice, you rarely save money.

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    Here is my take from dealing with this for a few years.

    1- The problem with the ride height on that holster is there is no up adjustments. I make mine to ride with the belt running just over the trigger guard with one lower adjustment and several higher ones. That lets you go up one hole higher for higher ride, or several holes lower if you want it on or under the belt. Looks like Fobus wanted to put out a tiny holster for a tiny gun. It looks good to most folks. And bigger is not always better, but if they would have squared off the bottom a bit there would be room for one more hole. Problem solved.

    2- Leather does break in over time, whether hybrid or full leather. But lets be honest here, unless you run an offset holster most folks cannot holster a gun without sweeping some part of their body. Before you argue about it, go try, and PAY ATTENTION. Just because the muzzle rests straight down or angle back does not mean that's the direction it points during the entire holstering process. Most folks insert the muzzle first with it angled slightly in, which sweeps the leg. Add in love handles or a very close riding OWB or nearly any IWB holster, and something is getting swept I don't care what holster you are wearing. If you want to ding hybrids, it would be in the loss of retention over time as the leather molds. But then again, IWB holsters are not about storage off body, where that is more important than it is on body.

    3- That kydex would be better off cut at a down angle instead of straight. My guess is they use a generic strip of kydex for several models to speed production. I cut all mine individually, so I make sure the knuckle clears. Not saying mass produced cannot get it right, but in many cases the one size fits most, cheaper to produce, less work customizing makes the design suffer. Cost goes down, but so can functionality.

    4- That's not a sweat shield on that gun. A sweat shield fits and allows a full grip IMO. That's a generic back for a small gun. I hand fit my gun, shell, and back together. If my big maws can get a grip, most folks will be GTG. Again, a failure of mass production and cost cutting. Using generic parts does not equal a custom fit.

    5- I don't like clips either. My personal IWB holster had loops. I offer several other options. And clips are far and away most of what I sell. IMO, they can be tricky with thinner belts. And so can the nylon C clips that are getting more popular. Most folks want ease of operation, and clips do that. FWIW, I've never had complaints on the spring steel clips. I have had one or two with the nylon C clips. I'm betting belt size was the factor since the C clips have more of a gap than the steel clips do. As much as everyone loves the FOMI clip, I hated them. They don't play well with leather because I can't get a flat space to mount them. Not saying it's a bad clip, it was a bad application on my part. I ended up selling all of them.
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    That was the first holster I looked at. The conceal ability is what drove me off. This article has also got me questioning my desire to buy an N82 Pro as well. Holster research is one of the main reasons I started following the forum. I am looking for a good holster for my G17.

    Are the all leather stealth, Max Con, versa max and the like really worth the extra money?

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    Member Array EmperorMA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sosmith65 View Post
    That was the first holster I looked at. The conceal ability is what drove me off. This article has also got me questioning my desire to buy an N82 Pro as well. Holster research is one of the main reasons I started following the forum. I am looking for a good holster for my G17.

    Are the all leather stealth, Max Con, versa max and the like really worth the extra money?
    This is just one guy's opinion, and a guy who is running mall ninja classes for the most part. The only time any of his pupils will work their holsters that hard will be during one of the classes. I can see the need for a good OWB holster for running the class, but to dismiss hybrids altogether for EDC is ridiculous. If his assertions were true, you'd hear all kinds of horror stories about good guys getting killed because they couldn't draw fast enough or the bad guy got the gun. We simply don't hear those stories.

    The N82 is one of my favorites. I carry my G19 in one and will probably end up with another for my G17. In fact, I am wearing my G19 in my N82 Pro as I type this (I also use my CrossBreed SuperTuck and Stealth Gear Onyx quite a bit and I love all three). I am basically auditioning all three and will get the winner for my G17 (I'll only get one IWB holster for it as it will rarely be carried IWB). The N82 Pro is winning right now for no other reason than the easy on/off feature. I don't always need that capability, but when I do it is extremely convenient. That can't be said for the other two double-clip holsters, even as superb as they are.

    Don't let one article scare you off the N82 or any other hybrid. Lots of other guys out there with tons of experience use and sing the praises of hybrids. Feel free to take his advice (and everyone else's) about FOBUS, however. FOBUS sucks.
    Last edited by EmperorMA; January 28th, 2016 at 03:48 PM.
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    I have been telling members to stay away from Fobus holsters for years.

    OK for a casual afternoon at the range but, not for serious daily carry.
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    Senior Member Array Wishoot's Avatar
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    Never had a Fobus so I won't comment.

    I have to disagree with the clip comment. Clips from Crossbreed, Comp-Tac and High Noon work exceptionally well. I've never experienced an issue with any of these brands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sosmith65 View Post
    That was the first holster I looked at. The conceal ability is what drove me off. This article has also got me questioning my desire to buy an N82 Pro as well. Holster research is one of the main reasons I started following the forum. I am looking for a good holster for my G17.

    Are the all leather stealth, Max Con, versa max and the like really worth the extra money?
    I am very familiar with the Brommeland and Sparks offerings, and yes, they are for the most part worth the money. The real question is, are they worth the wait? For me, not anymore.
    "To reject the notion of expertise, and to replace it with a sanctimonious insistence that every person has a right to his or her own opinion, is silly."

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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    I had one years ago. It was a great range holster after I removed the rotor crappie and attached the paddle with machine screws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorMA View Post
    This is just one guy's opinion, and a guy who is running mall ninja classes for the most part. The only time this guy or any of his pupils will be an "operator" will be during one of the classes. I can see the need for a good OWB holster for running the class, but to dismiss hybrids altogether for EDC is ridiculous. If his assertions were true, you'd hear all kinds of horror stories about good guys getting killed because they couldn't draw fast enough or the bad guy got the gun. We simply don't hear those stories.

    The N82 is one of my favorites. I carry my G19 in one and will probably end up with another for my G17. In fact, I am wearing my G19 in my N82 Pro as I type this (I also use my CrossBreed SuperTuck and Stealth Gear Onyx quite a bit and I love all three). I am basically auditioning all three and will get the winner for my G17 (I'll only get one IWB holster for it as it will rarely be carried IWB). The N82 Pro is winning right now for no other reason than the easy on/off feature. I don't always need that capability, but when I do it is extremely convenient. That can't be said for the other two double-clip holsters, even as superb as they are.

    Don't let a mall ninja scare you off the N82 or any other hybrid. Feel free to take his advice (and everyone else's) about FOBUS, however. FOBUS sucks.
    I know and have trained under Greg, and he as far from a mall ninja as anyone I know. Anonymous keyboard commandos, otoh...
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    Great article! I don't own a fobus holster thankfully. I do however own a couple hybrids. The (RIGHT) hybrids have worked out great for me so far. All of my hybrids are White Hats and SHTF gear. If clothing allowed I would where a Nelson Stealth 100 percent of the time but unfortunately they are not tuckable. I think that is where the Hybrid style holsters shine. Today and all days when I am at work I use either the SHTF gear or White hat. Finding a good one is the trick!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I know and have trained under Greg, and he as far from a mall ninja as anyone I know. Anonymous keyboard commandos, otoh...
    Ditto.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I know and have trained under Greg, and he as far from a mall ninja as anyone I know. Anonymous keyboard commandos, otoh...
    I didn't mean to say that is what this guy is. What I mean is that in the type of classes he runs, OWB kydex holsters with solid retention are definitely going to be a better option. Lots of re-holstering, tons of draws, more re-holstering, guys trying to pull at your gun .... intense training where your holster will be used 100s of times more than you'd ever need to in real life and over the course of the rest of your life. By nature, "operators" almost always wear OWB holsters because they don't by law have to conceal their weapons. In this instance, all IWB options are flawed, not just hybrids.

    The average guy walking down the street with a Glock 26 at 4:00 in a CrossBreed SuperTuck will more than likely never have to draw his weapon. The likelihood that a hybrid design (or any other type of IWB holster) would be the cause of failure in the chance he'd have to draw would be extremely low on the list of variables.

    Heck, even a guy like Hickok45 has done a video on hybrid holsters, singing their praises. All I'm saying is, don't let one guy who runs intense training classes that are for more holster-unfriendly than EDC is cloud your judgement. Their are plenty of others out there who swear by hybrids and plenty more who swear by every other type of holster. Pick what you like and what works for you and rock on.

    PS: Original post edited to more accurately reflect my intention.
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