Non holsters

This is a discussion on Non holsters within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Iíve long intended to ask the collective gun gurus here what you think about some non holster carry options that are widely circulated. First up ...

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Thread: Non holsters

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Non holsters

    Iíve long intended to ask the collective gun gurus here what you think about some non holster carry options that are widely circulated.

    First up is the Barami Hip Grip.

    http://www.baramihipgrip.com/

    Essentially this product is limited to revolvers, and I usually see it with a Tylerís T grip.

    But fear not you semiautomatic lovers thereís The Clipdraw.

    http://www.clipdraw.com/

    Both products are fundamentally the same.

    Now for the record I think both of these products are not good ideas for serious carry and you should get a real holster instead.

    But then I played the devilís advocate with myself.

    I still think for a revolver itís a terrible idea because of all the ways crud can work its way into a revolver.

    But letís consider a Glock-esque semiautomatic pistol. Itís far better contained system; itís certainly sealed up a lot better.

    And yes it doesnít cover the trigger, but if you use the products as described it seems to me your cover garment would cover the trigger, not to mention the ubiquitous safety triggers so popular today.

    So I ask you: niche product with a possible use, or avoid like the plague? I lean towards the latter as it seems unsafe and like it wouldnít really help you protect your gun, but maybe Iím wrong.

    Plus Iíve carried a knife with a clip on it for several years and I lost count of the number of times the clip got caught on something. Then again if you carried it IWB as proscribed I canít see this happening very easily.

    And even at all that, I can't deny such a thing would help concealability.

    I can see one personal use for it. I have a P89 I have no plans to ever carry, and I don't want to buy a good holster for it because it'd be a waste of money, but I would like to be able to tuck it in and go if I just had to.

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  3. #2
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    Briefly - security of the piece is paramount for me - certainly where we are talking primary and sizeable. ''At a pinch'' - I would mexican but seeing as I wear my piece from dawn till bed time - that is unlikely. BUG is different - cos that'll be mostly pocket, occasionally ankle... still secure.

    IWB ain't for me, clips or no clips or even dedicated rig - it's OWB all the way. Gun is safe - it conceals easily - and is in exact same place if I have to draw. No worries about slippage, not to mention discomfort.

    Boring I may be - adventurous I ain't!
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    I have, on occasion (but rarely) used Mexican carry. The clip would be nice on those occasions. But the 99.999% of the time that I carry normally, the clip would simply be in the way, not to mention ruining the looks of an otherwise aesthetically pleasing gun. Nope, clips aren't for me.
    Bumper
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  5. #4
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Yeah I definitely would not advise this for serious, day in day out carry, not when you can get a decent Fobus holster for the same $20 if that's all you have to spend.

    Still, I wonder if anyone else does this all the time or else can see a possible use for it, like a 1% of the time kind of thing.

  6. #5
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    Exclamation I'm Ready For Your Flames

    The ClipDraw has actually been around for a very long time. It had a "name change" to ClipDraw some years ago but it was made by a different company for a LONG time before that.
    It's actually a decent idea but (in my opinion) it does not allow the firearm to go down into the pants quite far enough & to me that makes the pistol feel less secure than it should feel. That's why I never liked it.
    That feeling is slightly worse with a Commander than a full size/length Colt 1911.
    It also allows some "side to side" shifting of the weapon that I'm not real comfortable with.
    Your pistol also should have a very positive "Click On" of the thumb safety. I don't feel that it's inherently unsafe but, it's just not as good as it seems like it should be. It could probably be slightly redesigned to be better.
    I am "odd man out" in that I do NOT believe that a holster needs to have the trigger guard covered in order to be a safe holster.
    I don't know how that ever got started. I suspect it has its roots in competition shooting where some shooters were "forced by the clock" to move quicker than their actual shooting ability deemed that they SHOULD move.
    Having the trigger guard covered has probably caused as many "real life" NDs as it has ever prevented.
    Most re~holstering NDs are caused by having the trigger finger inside the trigger guard when reinserting the firearm into the holster. The holster leather in the trigger guard area then pushes the trigger finger rearward causing the index finger to contact the trigger. If there is no material THERE then there is nothing to push the trigger finger back. So...the flip side of the coin is THAT YOU COULD SAY that a holster with no material near the trigger guard area is actually a SAFER holster.
    If you climb a lot of trees with an "open carry" holster then you might want to have the trigger guard completely covered.
    Basically, I see no "non~myth" safety need for any properly constructed holster to cover the trigger and trigger guard area of the holstered firearm.
    Also, some unskilled shooters who have dumbly NDed need to put the blame ANYWHERE ELSE but where that blame really belongs.
    So...they often blame their only two other options ~ either the firearm or the holster.
    If you learn not to fidget with your carry firearm and you are well practiced with your draw sequence then there is no need to have the trigger area completely covered. There is also no real need to have it UNCOVERED. It's a non issue.
    I also do not see any reason why a person cannot "pocket carry" any high quality firearm...IF the carry pocket stays empty...except for the firearm. The big disadvantage of just putting a firearm directly into an empty pocket is that the sharp edges of your firearm will quickly wear out your pockets. Of course if you are an idiot & you put your keys & your spare change & a carrot for your pet bunny in the same pocket as your firearm then you'll likely have some problems. Naturally I'm not suggesting that anybody do anything that they do not feel comfortable with doing. But, nobody should want to slam me for slipping a nice snag free Smith & Wesson J~frame Bodyguard into an empty coat pocket & going conveniently "on my way" since that is EXACTLY what that firearm was originally designed for. The bottom line is that some people will never completely trust themselves around firearms AND TO THEIR CREDIT they should always carry with the method that suits them and their personal mindset the best.
    ALSO, children ARE a factor. I don't have any & there never are any kids digging around in my pockets. I am not loading any kids into cars or packing any kids off to school.
    I am as safety conscious as anyone else & when I am in any environment when children are present I take the necessary precautions. You could say that I am actually extra cautious around kids...for instance if I am going to a kids B~day party or whatever. I empty the chamber & drop the mag of any semi~auto or completely unload any revolver NO MATTER what my method of carry is on that particular day. Kids are forever unpredictable and (to me) the words "unpredictable" and "firearm" do not ever mix.
    This is just my opinion & (of course) you folks should do what you feel comfy and cozy with and stick with that method of carry.
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    Member Array mchasal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    I am "odd man out" in that I do NOT believe that a holster needs to have the trigger guard covered in order to be a safe holster.
    I don't know how that ever got started. I suspect it has its roots in competition shooting where some shooters were "forced by the clock" to move quicker than their actual shooting ability deemed that they SHOULD move.
    Having the trigger guard covered has probably caused as many "real life" NDs as it has ever prevented.
    Most re~holstering NDs are caused by having the trigger finger inside the trigger guard when reinserting the firearm into the holster. The holster leather in the trigger guard area then pushes the trigger finger rearward causing the index finger to contact the trigger. If there is no material THERE then there is nothing to push the trigger finger back. So...the flip side of the coin is THAT YOU COULD SAY that a holster with no material near the trigger guard area is actually a SAFER holster.
    If you climb a lot of trees with an "open carry" holster then you might want to have the trigger guard completely covered.
    Those are some interesting points, I never thought of a covered trigger guard actually causing NDs. Something to think about.

    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    I also do not see any reason why a person cannot "pocket carry" any high quality firearm...IF the carry pocket stays empty...except for the firearm. The big disadvantage of just putting a firearm directly into an empty pocket is that the sharp edges of your firearm will quickly wear out your pockets.
    Another big reason for using a pocket holster when you pocket carry is that it holds the gun in the same position. Without a holster, some guns can tend to rotate around and when you reach in to draw, you spend some time fumbling to get a grip. Of course, there are a lot of variables here including the gun and the pocket that it's sitting in. A revolver may move less as its weight is more centralized, where an auto carries most of its weight in the butt; a pair of Jeans may hold a pistol in place quite well, while a larger coat pocket lets it bounce around.

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  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    I think for routine carry you should always use a holster. It keeps crud out of the gun and keeps your gun in better shape. Especially if you carry something with a lot of moving parts like a 1911 or something that crud can easily creep into like revolvers.

    See the main problem I see with these things, why I call them potentially useful but not a good idea for a primary carry method, is that in my experience things clipped to your waist or pocket inevitably shift.

    I suppose however it's not fundamentally different from a lot of slide holsters.

    And truthfully the real reason I prefer the triggerguard be covered is I prefer it aesthetically, and it has the side benefit of preventing the "tree branch" scenario, which I admit is highly unlikely.

    I may have to get one and try it sometime.

  9. #8
    Member Array Deke45's Avatar
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    I actually have one of these laying around in a box somewhere from a gun show many moons ago...wasn't called "clipdraw" then, but same idea, can't remember the name.

    Bottom line is I just didn't get the warm and fuzzy going cocked & locked as I do from nice secure leather!

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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Good point Deke! I wouldn't want a 1911 outside of a holster because the safety might get turned off.

  11. #10
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    Deke45

    I can't remember the doggone name either.
    I can almost see that PRE~CLIP~DRAW company name printed "up there" in my Mind's Eye but, sure can't remember it.
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    Was the "pre-Clip Draw" company Brown & Pharr????

    Anyway, never tried that attachment; the pistol would ride high, & require a cover garment to conceal it. I'd MUCH rather use a good holster.

    Now, the Barami Hip Grip does, in my opinion, have a niche. It effectively prevents the revolver from slipping down through the waistband, but also causes the revolver to ride extremely low at the beltline. This, in and of itself, has good & bad points:

    GOOD: I can effectively conceal a revolver using a Hip Grip with a tucked-in sport shirt & no cover garment. Just tuck the shirt "loosely;" the shirt will blouse over the beltline enough to hide the butt of the revolver. If you spend a lot of time seated, it's easier to draw than would be a pocket pistol. That said . . .

    BAD: The Hip Grip is a LOT slower on the draw than is a decent (never mind first-rate) holster.

    It has its applications, and a set of Baramis in the gear drawer could come in handy.

  13. #12
    Member Array Deke45's Avatar
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    I believe it was Brown & Pharr out of Georgia that made them in the 70's. But there are examples of this design for the 1911 that date back to the 1930's. I suppose there is a circumstance where these might be useful, but since I always carry condition 1, I never warmed up to the idea (or Mexican carry for that fact) because of the thumb safety.

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