Please Read This
This is a discussion on Please Read This within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Speed of presentation will matter depending on the situations you face on a daily basis.
I only half joke that working even part-time in a ...
May 25th, 2005 06:33 AM
Speed of presentation will matter depending on the situations you face on a daily basis.
I only half joke that working even part-time in a gun shop makes you one of the biggest targets in town. Since you can't exactly blindly point loaded guns at potential customers, presentation speed is important, along with knowing where all the loaded guns behind the counters are stashed to get to a NY reload if necessary.
Thankfully I use a range that lets me shoot at impolite angles and while moving and doing all sorts of things that from what I hear are verboten in a lot of places - so I'm comfortable drawing and firing in any situation I'm going to find myself in.
I don't have a firearm for carry with a safety, don't have a holster with a retention strap or something that would have to be unhooked to draw the weapon, and have it down to idiot-simple.
There's no way I'd do the deep carry thing with an inaccessible gun - I'd rather have my little Baby Browning .25 readily available in a pocket or belt holster than have to dig for something bigger. I'm not fond of the stopping power of a .25 or a .32, but well, if I have to have something that's absolutely invisible, it's why I have a few firearms for that special purpose.
Thankfully all my regular, full-time clients understand that I carry a firearm (and most are appreciative knowing full well it means I'm not concerned about doing 3 am service calls on location unarmed) and don't have an issue with it. I don't work for anti-gun folks, and as an independent contractor, I do have that choice.
Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.
May 25th, 2005 12:34 PM
Just to help put the drawing time frame thing into context...watched this TV show last night ~ 30 year prolific veteran Bank Robber.
Enters Bank Yelling ~ Gets everybody in bank down on the floor with a pistol shoved in all of their faces ~ Hops up onto the teller area ~ Cleans out the cash ~ Exits the Bank ~ On his way ~ All within 90 seconds.
Smart Carry test ~ Zipped jacket...Pants w/ belt normal tight...Shirt tucked in & Adding 5 seconds for *** panic/fumble/adrenaline pump ~ Time to presentation ~ 'bout 15 seconds.
That is an absolute eternity in any defensive emergency.
May 25th, 2005 01:09 PM
Please excuse the thread drift.
Granted, Doc was the only 'good guy' to hit anything at the OK Corral. He used a shotgun.
The "fastest gun in the West" has to go to Doc Holiday in his prime, before his TB ate him down to the bone.
For some reason, Wyatt befriended him. And since dime-novels were popular, Wyatt also sat down with a ghost writer to create the epic of his life. Doc was portrayed in an embroidered fashion. You must remember, the OK Corral was the first time Wyatt was ever in a real gunfight. (Most of his previous arrests came from knocking the offender unconscious.) We cannot even verify if a Buntline Special even existed.
Considering the romance of the era, Hardin has more documented kills and more news articles to back up his life than any other gunslinger.
To that, Hardin was killed only after he served a sentence in prison and began a new career as a lawyer and salesman. I often wonder if the same killer would have had the good fortune had they met when Hardin was in his prime. Unlike Doc, Hardin seemed to be pathological.
May 26th, 2005 01:02 AM
My personal opinion is that you have to try to squeeze as much concealability, speed, accuracy, and power out of your carry method as possible. Mostly this means practice. IF you practice your draw, and practice your shooting, then you are doing what you can. I am of the opinion to first focus on accuracy. Speed will come in due time with practice. You must remember, though to be the first one with an accurate shot fired. My goal is to be able to draw and fire three heart shots into three targets at 15 meters with my .45 in under three seconds. No, I am not that good...yet. However, as I practice and practice, I get closer and closer.
I do not vary how I carry if I can avoid it. I figure that if the S hits the F, then I wil probably go strictly by reflex, despite my attempts to be calm and thoughtful. That being the case, I train to draw reliably and smoothly by reflex. I train to aim and fire quickly by reflex. I train to switch targets quickly, follow-up with head shots if I already tagged a target once, and always look for additional threats.
If I am in a deep cover situation, then the extra concealment will cost me a little time, and a little power since I am carrying a smaller piece. My basic draw does not change, nor does my firing pattern. This gives me speed.
I guess the way to sum it up is to say that speed is a consequence of serious training, not the objective of it.
As for different holsters and guns; different people with different tastes and abilities in different situations will be better suited with different weapons and carriers. That's the great thing about capitalism; you get to choose what is best suited for you as a unique set of priorities.
"You are what you do when it counts."
"The secret to long life...is gunsights!"Bloodletting
May 26th, 2005 02:16 AM
Very good post and you are 100% correct.
Speed does comes with practice.
But, a shooter should select a holster for his/her method of carry that will allow "draw and presentation" speed to come with practice.
My concern is really for the new "concealed carry" people that are tuning in here.
Many of them believe that it's necessary to conceal their firearm WAY MORE than a firearm actually needs to be concealed for general daily carry.
Then their potential to "gain speed" is LOST due to an improper selection of an unnecessarily DEEP carry system.
I think that first "boo~boo spent" $40.00 or $50.00 would be much better spent on ammo or a down payment on a quality rig.
For Instance...WAY BACK when I first bought a Kramer Confident "undershirt" I sure wish somebody would have said to me...
"Hey...Are ya sure you really want to put the same smelly, sweaty, "undershirt holster" on every morning this summer...or are you planning on either buying seven of them ~ or washing that one you just bought every doggone night?"
Because I never even considered that before I bought one!
All I'm really trying to do is suggest a higher standard of carry and a more workable "method of carry" for folks who are choosing to DEEP SIX their firearm when it's not (at all) necessary for them to struggle with that highest degree of concealment. Just so you know where I'm coming from. I have no argument at all with anything in your post. You are obviously a well practiced & seasoned pro that has been carrying for a long time.
Lots of brand new "Packin' Iron People" just are not aware of all of their carry options. They are new to carry & are still not perfectly comfortable with "carry" and they sometimes think that they have got to bury their firearm 6' under....so that nobody else will see it. There potential to gain draw speed will always suffer due to an improper holster selection.
May 26th, 2005 09:59 AM
I think something like the Smart Carry has its place though. I personally have need of a completely concealed holster.
I live in two worlds. I live in the real world and the academic world. In the real world guns are fine. In the academic world guns are forbidden.
If I can't conceal it underneath a tucked in polo shirt with nothing showing on the belt, not so much as a clip, the holster lacks appeal for 5 days a week. Even if I simply remove the gun and wear an empty holster, the sight or presence of a rig can cause avoidable suspicion and unrest.
I'm in a position where, next week for example, I'll be driving between places where carry is okay and places where it is not. I'll also have people staring at my waistline for a considerable amount of time. I spend a lot of time in close quarters with observant people, and when I'm standing and they're sitting, and there's no cover garment, well you get the idea. The gun will not be present of course but the holster itself could get me in a heap of trouble.
I don't want to have to stop and mess with removing a holster and a belt and a cover garment.
Now on the weekends, when I can wear what I want to, yeah holster belt etc.
Pocket carry or something like the Smart Carry has a lot of worth to me. It's not abysmally slow, and it's easy to simply remove the gun with absolutely nothing showing.
May 26th, 2005 12:07 PM
Speed + practice practice practice
If you notice one thing about this (very good) thread, nearly everybody is mentioning the necessity of practice and holster selection. Regardless of your choice of carry method, the holster MUST fit, be comfortable, and be well broken in to function properly. Spend more time practicing your weapon draw than on the range. Practice wearing different clothes, jackets etc. If possible try to stay with the same basic carry method. I see the need to add one more important item, it's been discussed here before, AWARENESS. If you constantly aware of people around you, and take the necessary precautions, the chances for a surprise encounter is reduced. For example, when the last time you went to Wal Mart or to the grocery, how many parked cars were occupied ? Did you walk directly from your car and return the same way ? Did you use the same door ? When you filled up with gas, were you standing there admiring the handle ? Do you sit facing a door ? Suspect everyone. Profile Profile Profile. If something doesn't look/feel right, you're already ready to take action. Speed is already on your side. Just my 2 cents worth.
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