Anyone for elephant? - Page 2

Anyone for elephant?

This is a discussion on Anyone for elephant? within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Matt Del Fatti That's some beautiful work! Who put the mags in backwards?...

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Thread: Anyone for elephant?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Del Fatti View Post
    That's some beautiful work! Who put the mags in backwards?


  2. #17
    Member Array NYCMedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ti Carry View Post
    Are you saying that this isn't your holster set up, or it is? If it is, what are the grips on the 1911, VZ?
    Ti
    This is not my holster. Alex sends me pictures from time to time when he has something out of the ordinary to share. I got to know Alex when I ordered my first holster from him (http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...s/129_2948.jpg ). He is a great guy and an unbelievable craftsman. I am waiting on a stingray set for my C&S Adventurer.
    Bleeding-heart reporter: “Do you feel that violence begets violence?”
    Jeff Cooper: “It is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure - and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more than he can enjoy."

  3. #18
    Member Array Matt Del Fatti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by los View Post
    Had to be the "left-handed" owner..? ...
    I don't think so Jimmy. A left hander would have had them in correctly. Alex must use a professional photographer (who doesn't know guns) taking the pictures.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Gorgeous rig, as is every one I've seen from Nossar.
    Cheers,
    Rod
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  5. #20
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYCMedic View Post
    Truth be told I have a soft spot for elephants and wouldn't order a holster made out of one. Mine is going to be stingray. It's not that I have a problem with using animal products, but the idea of supporting killing elephants bothers me. Regardless, this is beautiful!
    +1 on not supporting the killing of elephants, although I agree it is a beautiful rig.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  6. #21
    Member Array NYCMedic's Avatar
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    Maybe he is so accustomed to right hand rigs that he just threw them in that way. I just sent him an email and asked. I'll let you know what he says.
    Bleeding-heart reporter: “Do you feel that violence begets violence?”
    Jeff Cooper: “It is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure - and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more than he can enjoy."

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    Nice set up but I don't order exotics. Not a tree hugger, just don't believe in contributing to poaching which is how many of the exotic leathers are gathered (especially Elephant, many of the snake skins and croc hides).

  8. #23
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    Concerning in the U.S. Elephant Leather

    A Note To The Uninformed

    OK as a guy that works in pre-ban existing supplies of African elephant ivory I feel qualified to talk to you about elephant leather. (which has recently been OKed for importation under CITES approval)
    Any elephant leather that is being imported into the U.S. these days is furnished/tagged with a C.I.T.E.S. approval tag or it simply will not make it into the U.S..
    There is no illegal elephant leather coming into the U.S. these days.
    The elephant populations are legally culled for various absolutely necessary reasons these days (primarily due to severe and naturally occurring drought conditions) and the money from selling the "parts" actually goes toward perpetuating the species.
    So no elephants are slaughtered these days just to make fancy dandy holsters.
    Any C.I.T.E.S. tagged elephant leather is your assurance that elephant populations are being carefully managed. The CITES tagged hides are traceable directly back to the managed source.
    They (elephant) will either die from being judiciously culled or they die from starvation and lack of viable water resources. Take your pick. One option is quite humane and the other is absolutely horrific.
    As strange as it may sound to the uninformed the reality is that you're actually doing more to support healthy elephant populations by buying an elephant leather holster than you are by not buying one. That sounds totally twisted but, it is nonetheless true.
    It gets far more involved than I'm willing to go into here but, the bottom line is that it should be known that no elephants are being murdered for holster leather.
    That would be because the money that the people who go after the poachers are funded/paid with is the money provided by the selling of the hide and the bone.
    Elephant are never "poached" for their skin (by the way) and are only ever poached for their ivory which is already prohibited from entering the U.S. these days anyway African ivory is very likely to stay permanently banned. Just FYI.

  9. #24
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    I hear what you are saying about the skin. (I do not claim to be some kind of expert on the matter, but it is logical that buying a product funds its harvest.) About the ivory, are you saying that the 101 people selling new ivory grips on ebay are all using preban ivory?
    Bleeding-heart reporter: “Do you feel that violence begets violence?”
    Jeff Cooper: “It is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure - and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more than he can enjoy."

  10. #25
    Member Array Curtis27's Avatar
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    And if they are regularly culling the herds to help manage them, where can I get a pair of elephant hide boots to match a future holster?
    NRA Member

    "...the Constitution does not say Government shall decree the right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution says ‘the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.’” - Ronald Reagan

  11. #26
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    Absolutely Yes

    It is legal ivory.

    There is actually a pretty amount of existing ivory still in the United States.
    Much of it is sourced from old non trophy tusks privately owned tusk that were taken years ago.
    The main seller on Ebay for ivory grips is Nutmeg Sports and he used to make Ivory grips for Colt.
    He buys mostly old mediocre non trophy and damaged single tusks and not matched pairs.
    David Warther (who is also 100% legitimate) also tracks down old material mostly ivory that has been deacensioned from museum collections.
    He also has a storeroom of tusks that is documented and dates back to his Great Grandfather.
    David Boone of Boone Trading Company also deals only in legal pre-existing supplies of remaining domestic ivory. When it dries up...it's gone and there will be no more ivory grips.
    Only one seller that I am aware of (and I won't mention his name) was somewhat shady and he is on the "inside looking out" these days if you catch my drift on that.
    The United States is completely out of the world loop for African Elephant Ivory these days.
    Buying a set of ivory grips made from old domestic ivory IN NO WAY affects African elephant populations. That is a fact.
    Buying, Selling, & Trading whatever ivory remains in the United States is perfectly legal Interstate.
    NO ivory can be legally imported into the United States and no ivory products can be exported out of the United States.
    That is the CITES & The Fish & Wildlife law these days and it is strictly enforced.

    Also: Knee-jerk exaggerating an intelligent argument never helps to further the truth.
    The last time I checked there were 2 sellers on Ebay selling Ivory grip and not One Hundred & One.
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    If there's a market - there's going to be poachers. Don't really believe no "illegal" skins are coming in, can't even stop drugs from coming in. As I said, I don't have a problem with exotic leathers, just a personal thing.

  13. #28
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    Good. That will make me feel better about buying a pair.
    Bleeding-heart reporter: “Do you feel that violence begets violence?”
    Jeff Cooper: “It is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure - and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more than he can enjoy."

  14. #29
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    Actually These Days You Can

    "And if they are regularly culling the herds to help manage them, where can I get a pair of elephant hide boots to match a future holster?"

    Try Tony Lama.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronwill View Post
    If there's a market - there's going to be poachers. Don't really believe no "illegal" skins are coming in, can't even stop drugs from coming in. As I said, I don't have a problem with exotic leathers, just a personal thing.
    True. At the same time if you allow a legal transaction, even an expensive one as they are doing, it removes much of the profit that drives the poaching. The best thing that could be done to help the poachers would be to ban all transactions. That would drive the price up to a level that would support poaching better than the current market prices do.

    The comparison to drugs is perfect, but not in the way you intended. The reason people run drugs in illegally is because it is so hugely profitable. Tons of illegal $$$ are made off of smuggling because there is NO legal method or market. This is no different than the effect of prohibition on organized crime. They profited from it immensely because the only way to fill the demand was for an illegal market to be established where prices were high, regulation nil, and competition only presented by others also ating illegally.

    If we were serious about winning the bogus war on drugs we would legalize it and remove the $$$ from those currently running it. We could then regulate it in a way it is not now. This logic was proven when prohibition ended. It has been proven by the way certain Aftrican nations are handling their exotics now.

    There will always be poaching, ban or no ban. There will always be movie stars making films decrying the slaughter of noble animals... blah blah blah. What should concern us is real results. What you want to do is minimize the uncontrolled poaching while maximize the benifits to both the species AND the people of the nations where those animals exist that the procesing of some animals can provide. Leaving the profit for the native nations and people out of the equation is a sure fired way to doom the animals. Unless those animals bring in $$$ to support the efforts made to care for them then you cannot expect those nations to invest in them.

    Controlled trade in animal products and hunting has been the ONLY long term method proven to ensure the health of an exotic species as far as I am aware.

    Personally I am not going to drop the $$$ just to tell someone my rig is made out of an elephant. There are plenty of horses and cows that do the job just fine as well as man made materials.

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