What I learned in a phone conversation with Lou Allessi

This is a discussion on What I learned in a phone conversation with Lou Allessi within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I needed to contact Lou to discuss some things about my order and paddle holsters came up in the conversation. He said at a training ...

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Thread: What I learned in a phone conversation with Lou Allessi

  1. #1
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    What I learned in a phone conversation with Lou Allessi

    I needed to contact Lou to discuss some things about my order and paddle holsters came up in the conversation.

    He said at a training seminar (I think it was a seminar, anyway some kind of training event), a training school brought about 25 paddle holsters representing about every holster manufacturer that makes a paddle holster. They broke all but one in retention drills! The one that didn't was a Blade-tech and it was so distorted it couldn't be used.

    As I understood it, the demo included both Kydex and leather paddle holsters. The weakness seems to come from the way the paddles are attached to the holsters.

    Anyway, I found that interesting and thought you might too.

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    Member Array Shotgun Willie's Avatar
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    Good to know. Thanks. I was considering one but I may need to rethink that.
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    I think you need to look at how likely it is you will be wrestling for your gun, how often you will remove and attach your holster for use and how much the paddle style will print. I don't like how paddle holsters stick out from my body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky
    I think you need to look at how likely it is you will be wrestling for your gun, how often you will remove and attach your holster for use and how much the paddle style will print. I don't like how paddle holsters stick out from my body.
    Bingo rocky, that "stick out" thing also came up in the conversation. That's more my concern with paddles than the "retention tear away", but still it's a characteristic of paddles.

    I needed a quick on - quick off and didn't want a paddle so that's why I went with the CQC/S.

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    Member Array Shotgun Willie's Avatar
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    Umm...what is a CQC/S?
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    Talking Close Enough To Touch?

    I only use my paddle holster for IDPA competition and it's an open top FOBUS....fairly fast in the draw while offering enough retention for the purposes of the match. However, I have also trained in retention techniques.

    IMHO, if a BG succeeds in getting close enough to you for them to actually TOUCH you, you've done something very wrong (tactically speaking).

    OTOH, if I'm going to be say, mugged, I much prefer the individual to be within arms reach and preferably to make the first move. Then it's fairly easy. All predators tend to think of all "victims" as sheep and they can rarely recognize the odd sheepdog mixed into the flock. I have had the occasion to use my Aikido rather successfully and suddenly a couple of times.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun Willie
    Umm...what is a CQC/S?
    It's this:

    Hmmm, it wouldn't let me attach it to this thread so see the thread:

    You ain't gonna believe this - Alessi CQC/S...

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    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    I have used Paddle Holsters for about 7 years. The ones I use most, and have had the longest are Fobus. A couple of years ago I bought some Comp Tac paddle holsters.
    I like them all.

    While I have no doubt as to what Lou said, I often wonder, when one says his instructor jerked or broke the paddle the student was wearing, what in the world the student was doing. Was he just standing there and waiting for the instructor to break the holster???

    Personally I think such is ridiculous. I have asked a couple of people to grab mine and either jerk them off or break them. I don't give them but one chance. No one has broken a Fobus yet.

    If one is wearing his gun concealed, then how does the BG even know to grab the holster?

    As for me, I intend to continue wearing my Fobus and Comp tac paddle holsters when convenient, and have no worry that anyone is going to grab and break them. Don't let such information keep you from using plastic paddles if you like them.

    If a BG gets me in such a situation that he can grab my holster, then I am already beat due to age and coronary artery disease. I "ain't going to let it happen" and that is why I carry CONCEALED. Note, CONCEALED.

    Jerry

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    Jerry,
    In spite of the fact that I have an number of custom, pricey holsters, I like Fobus paddles - they just work for me.

    But, I think what's breaking holsters is the retention technique applied by the student, not the drill instructor. If I understand it correctly when the BG grabs your gun, you clamp your hand over his hand and press downward in "death grip" force to prevent the BG from pulling your gun. The downward force is too much for the paddle connections.

    Lou indicated that paddles are often connected at two or three points. I suspect they are relatively weak compared to belt loops that are an integral part of the holster.

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    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    In combat everything breaks.

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    I have moved away from paddles - mostly because of comfort and a love of leather.

    My Fobus paddle for P95 did good service but I would not be too surprised if the attachment of paddle did not let go under a lot of stress - not too likely from my POV but I could see it happening potentially.
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    I don't use my Fobus , due to the high bluing wear on my Taurus . It works fine, just sticks out too far unless I am wearing a winter coat. As for retention, I asked a few friends to try to snatch my (unloaded) gun. Most could not pull it out with out me holding it.

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    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Tangle,
    Thanks for the comment.
    I also have some of the top maker's holsters, but I more often use the Fobus due to the convenience.

    My bedside gun is a S&W 642 because my wife could use it if necessary. Now if I thought I would really need to use a gun in SD I would take one of my 1911s or 9mm. (I won't argue about the weakness of that line of thinking.)
    So most of the time when going to town or somewhere in the evening, I just grab the 642, and slip on the Fobus with a speed strip in my pocket.

    Jerry

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    Jerry,
    In spite of the fact that I have an number of custom, pricey holsters, I like Fobus paddles - they just work for me.

    But, I think what's breaking holsters is the retention technique applied by the student, not the drill instructor. If I understand it correctly when the BG grabs your gun, you clamp your hand over his hand and press downward in "death grip" force to prevent the BG from pulling your gun. The downward force is too much for the paddle connections.

    Lou indicated that paddles are often connected at two or three points. I suspect they are relatively weak compared to belt loops that are an integral part of the holster.

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    Post Fobus

    Just my opinion that Fobus paddle holsters are fine for "open carry" or "around the house" carry or the range but, are (for sure) not the best holsters for maximum concealment.
    Under a sport coat OK...maybe.
    They honestly do stick out too far. They do not hug or pull in close to the body.
    The Kydex paddles just cannot compare to a properly designed leather OWB rig.
    It's not something that I consider worth getting into a "holster argument" over but, I have tried them Unc. Mikes & Fobus BOTH & I would not ever carry in one. I even tried hard to give them a "fair shake" & they got tossed directly into my ka-ka holster bin.
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    I only use paddle holsters for range work or for when just knocking around my own property. I very rarely use one for CCW although I do from time to time.

    I prefer something along the lines of the CQC/S from Alessi or my prototype Laredo Defender from K&D Holsters. You put them on or take them off without having to undo your belt. They are more secure than a paddle holster, and they conceal better.
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