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Retention Holsters

3K views 25 replies 16 participants last post by  ppkheat 
#1 ·
Does the idea of carrying a holster with a mechanical retention (SERPA, Bianchi paddle-lock, etc) scare anyone else? If something breaks or goes wrong, your gun can be stuck in there. The SERPA, especially, can be prone to getting grit behind the release which can lock it up. Not that most CCWers are rolling around in the dirt, but if you're in a fight, that'd be the time you would be doing so...

Personally, I'd stick with the basic thumb break if I wanted retention on my concealed holster.

That said, I open carry in a Safariland 6004 drop rig with the retention bail, but I've never seen or heard of one of these failing even when encased in mud...plus, it's what I have to use regardless of my personal feelings.
 
#6 ·
That's what I use, as well, but I'm conflicted.

No matter how snug the holster, your gun can and will come free in a serious ground fight (try it with a weighted red gun or even your unloaded CCW), or if (in my line of work) you're knocked over by a blast of some sort. Plus, it's easier game to grab if it comes down to that. (As a LEO, it's pretty much assumed I'll be armed, whether visible or not...)

Yet, I've definitely seen a drop in draw speed and ease with a thumb-break that I was forced to use a few months ago, and I see definite problems drawing with the off-hand from a retention holster.

That said, I just don't like those button-style retentions, and was wondering if anyone else felt the same way.

Perhaps I should look for a fuller-fitting Kydex model which holds tighter and doesn't break in like leather does. I've used the best leather holsters and they've always gotten easier to draw from after a few months of carry and training.
 
#3 ·
None of my concealment holsters have retention devices of any kind. I don't see the need.

As long as the holster is of quality the gun is going to be retained in a way that only allows a drawing motion to release the gun, pulling from the side, back, front, whatever, is not going to work too well.. Yeah, eventually you'll get it out but not without you REALLY knowing it.

Besides, if you are concealing well, you already have to get under concealment clothing, draw without getting your firearm caught up in the clothing and make a clean presentation. Having to undo some kind of retention strap would just add time to an already too lengthy process in my opinion.

If I were an open carrier it might be different but I'd probably stick with the good old thumb break kind that break when you reach on to grab the gun. These holsters with buttons down by the triggers and straps that go around the back and this, that and the other thing just seem to be asking for me to miss something vital on them.

As a concealed carrier, no, I won't have any retention devices on my holsters other than the strap on my shoulder holster that just keeps it from falling out.

Personally, I've not seen what has been SO HUGE about the SERPA holsters. Is there something I'm missing? EVERYONE is asking about them in our store and I'm wondering what the big deal is. I've looked them over and don't see what's so great, but maybe I'm just missing something. I'd be happy to be enlightened. I haven't tried one yet because there's no way this side of paradise I would be able to conceal the thing, but maybe someone will lend me one so I can check it out and see what all the hype is about.

Anyway, that's my view on retention holsters.
 
#7 ·
I've seen a SERPA jam with grit. I've also read many, many reports of NDs instigated by the finger positioning when actuating the release--yeah, ultimately operator error, but why use equipment that's inherently conducive to bad habits?

Likewise, I look at the bianchi paddle lock and just imagine that little tab being broken off and me being unable to draw and/or having to cut my gun out of the holster while it's loaded...
 
#5 ·
I carry in a Serpa while camping, shooting and during the winter months. I have gotten my Serpa dirty enough before and not run into an issue. They seem to work well for me, especially out in the woods since losing the gun can be an issue.
I don't use a retention device on all my holsters, but the Serpa and Paddlelok seem rather nice for added security.
 
#10 ·
I have a Safariland with a thumb-lever. I don't really use it for anything (in fact, I tried canceling the order as it was supposed to be out of stock, placed an order on a Blackhawk CQC---non-Serpa---elsewhere, then the first place 'suddenly' got it in stock and shipped the Safriland anyway :irked:), but I have practiced with it. Took absolutely no changes to my draw to use it. So, as a retention device, I'd say it works pretty well. Wouldn't want to try and draw off-hand if something happened, though. I'd never use that holster for concealed carry, though. I like my MTAC and Regulator too much. :smile:

A guy who took the LFI-1 course with me used an IWB with thumb-break, but he rode a motorcycle. His take was that the leaned forward posture (sport-touring bike) just made an open-top IWB a little too precarious for his taste. Seems like that was a particular situation where concealment and retention were both arguably necessary. If I find myself riding and carrying, I am inclined to go with a shoulder rig, though.
 
#11 ·
I do not think a thumb break is needed unless one is a LEO, and would be likely to get in hand to hand fights.
All my holsters are tight, and the gun will not fall out if held upside down and shaken slightly.

I do not plan to get into a ground fight, and there is essentially zero chance of that.

If you do go to a thumb break then get that on all your carry holsters. I had one given me by a good friend for a Makarov. When I wear it I always forget to unsnap it. I have also found that thumb breaks on a revolver holster that has a hammer does not work well as the hammer tends to catch on the thumb break when drawn.

For an average CHL holder I think they are a mistake. Get a good holster, and it will be too tight when new and you will have to loosen it somewhat. It should remain tight when broken in.
Regards,
Jerry
 
#12 ·
I do not plan to get into a ground fight, and there is essentially zero chance of that.
I don't plan on getting in a gunfight, either. In fact, I look at ways to get out the possibility in every possible situation (and I am a LEO, but a LEO whose job it often is to avoid conflict). But I carry a gun and train for the contingency.

You're definitely right that one can avoid most confrontations of whatever force level by being humble and smart (excepting LEOs whose job is to confront). But if forced to fight, one can't always choose the circumstances, and these might include being in a close fight and unable to get to your gun, taken to the ground, whatever.

Ed: You're also right about a commonality of training. Luckily, I don't have too many guns or too many holsters at once.

Ed II: My intent wasn't to discuss the necessity of retention anyhow--just to talk about the specific styles of holsters which seem popular, but to me, not particularly well-designed.
 
#14 ·
I only own quality holsters. All leather, none mass-produced. It appears we've had different experiences on the mat.

Ed: Again, though, wasn't looking to start the old retention/no-retention debate. All I was wondering was if anyone else thought the SERPA type designs were flawed, or if it was just paranoid old me.
 
#15 ·
Like I said, I haven't done everything yet..lol I'm sure there is CERTAINLY a circumstance wherein I could find myself on the ground, ten feet from where I started, with my gun elsewhere, but I've not had to deal with that.

Point is, yes, I've practiced ground fighting and gun retention and not lost my gun due to the fact it didn't have a retention strap.

We plan and train for the worst and while the chances of me having to roll around on the ground and fight for my gun are slim I HAVE considered them and made sure I had decent equipment should I have to do such.

I, personally, don't think a holster with a specific retention device is necessary for your average concealed carry. Sure, if I was even an undercover LEO I might think differently because even then the likelihood of my having to grapple with an assailant goes up, but in my daily world it's even less likely than me having to use my firearm in defense to begin with and even then the odds are EXTREMELY low, therefore, my concealed carry holsters will be retention-device-less.

Edited to add: Oops. I must have hit reply just as you were adding your last comment. I didn't realize that was your thrust of the thread, apologies.

No, I haven't heard anything bad about the types of holsters mentioned, and as I've said they've been asked for a lot but something about them (other than the fact that they are bulky) doesn't sit right with me. I don't like where the retention device is. Like I said before, it's just begging me to make a mistake with them. I, personally, won't be getting one, probably ever, but I'll certainly borrow one and try it to see what the fuss is about.
 
#16 ·
Yeah, I'm just uncomfortable with something that traps your gun if it malfunctions/gets damaged, instead of being a fail-safe design that instead reverts to being a no-retention holster.

I'm also a LEO, so my thoughts on retention may be different--I used to pooh-pooh the guys and gals who had thumb breaks (and tellingly, stupidly left them unsnapped during qualification...), but I'm beginning to think they may have a point, even if they're not training right. But, like you, my only thumb break is on a shoulder rig that I use when detailed as a driver.
 
#17 ·
Re: the Safariland design I mentioned above, I think it is pretty well designed. It's just a spring loaded lever that presses into the ejector port onto the breech of the autoloader and keeps the gun from being pulled out. When you draw, you are just hitting the lever with your thumb in the normal act of getting a combat grip. If anything, it lets you lever against the holster to get the gun out pretty quickly. The holster itself is hard plastic with a suede (or some such) lining.

I think it is a good design, better (I suspect) than the SERPA---simpler mechanism, no modification to the draw, positive retention.
 
#18 ·
My 2 cents

Well for my 2 cents,
My wife was extremely uncomfortable with my decision to purchase and carry a side arm, but after getting my M-TAC and letting her and the kids try to remove it from the holster while I was wearing it she warmed up to the idea.:smile: Further while at a freinds shooting several people tried to draw my weapon(unloaded) from various positions, and the leather pushing my P-01 into the kydex made very difficult proposition. As to fighting it never fell out, and some of the guys were near full contact sparing while trying their hand at unholstering my weapon. In short retention holster, I don't need no stinking retention holster!:yup:

But these are my only experiences.




Stay safe,
Searn
 
#19 ·
The SERPA is very big around here. :yup:
I have one Carbon Fiber Non-SERPA (same rig but minus the push retention) and you can use the tension adjustment screw to hold the fiream in there quite tight. So tight in fact that the firearm will never just fall out.

I bought the non SERPA because it was less expensive and I just wanted a NON Leather rig for camping in the Spring when conditions can get quite damp.
It's not a bad holster and it serves its purpose.
 
#20 ·
I do not use a holster while conceal carrying. I gave that up a while back. been carrying a Glock 30 and sometimes my full size usp .45 without one. been in 2 fist fights while carrying my glock un-holstered and did not loose it. I been doing plumbing as a living and climb in and out from under houses on my back and never lost it. just in the way you carry it. Now OC, yes, I use a serpa blackhawk. I just dont trust someone walking up and being able to grab it from me.
 
#21 ·
All mechanical gimmicky devices can fail,I do not want to risk the one time I need my gun it gets locked in the holster and gets me killed,Most Kydex/hybrids can be adjusted for retention to fit you're needs.Usually something requiring a firm drawing motion to unholster is good enough
 
#22 ·
I've been using the Serpa holsters for a couple years now, and have yet to have one fail on me. I usually don't roll around in dirt and rocks, so that's not a concern for me. I just picked up a Comp-Tac Infidel, and so far it has been my EDC holster of choice. I can't stand thumb breaks, and prefer open top holsters.
 
#25 ·
The issue has come from people "pressing" the button with the tips of their fingers towards the gun during the draw, and the fingers subsequently entering the trigger guard as they complete the draw. Again, operator issue, but this has happened to trained, experienced individuals (most of whom have shot themselves in the lower body).

And even if you keep the finger straight, you still have to press it in towards the gun to actuate the lever--this is not a motor movement I like to add to my own drawstroke in any case, much less under stress, which exaggerates things.

I was planning on posting links to some of the cases, but they're all on closed forums. Haven't Googled it, so maybe there's some easier info to find around the Net. And I'm no expert on this stuff... just heard the noise about it and saw a SERPA get stuck up, which was enough for me.
 
#26 ·
IMHO retention holster good for bicycling

I've mentioned in previous threads that my wife and I are doing some bicycle riding for the cardio benefits. Since bike riding causes you to be pretty vulnerable I'm CCW. Also, I haven't wrecked or had a nasty spill yet, but I know that the possibility exists. I decided that I wanted a holster with retention so I could increase my chances of keeping my CCW in my possession if I were to wreck. I'd rather for EMS to discover my gun rather than some child find later after they've hauled me away. :dead:

A good while back I happened to be at a gun store going-out-of-business sale and I bought a few items. One was a RSR Defense holster. They are made in Israel, polymer, and have a retention button. It's a paddle-type holster and is made specifically for my G27. I carry it OWB while covering it with a long t shirt. The polymer is especially good in repelling "sweat".

I'm very happy with the entire rig for cycling, and for that use I like the retention feature.

Once upon a time, I carried a C&L 1911 in a thumb break leather holster, I felt good about carrying it on-duty. Back in the 1970's, during the revolver era, I got some strange looks, but I didn't care, I was a early reader of Jeff Cooper. :hand10:
 
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