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CTAC/MTAC v K&D Dakota Defender

4K views 25 replies 15 participants last post by  Craiger 
#1 ·
Okay, I know in the end it will come down to my own personal tastes, but in looking for an adjustable IWB for a full size 1911 I think I've narrowed it down to either an MTAC/CTAC from Comp-Tac or possibly the Dakota Defender from K&D.

My question is, are there differences in the designs that make one preferable to the other? All three seem very similar in design and it looks like it would just come down to whether I want Kydex, a little leather, or mostly leather... Is that about right?

What about thickness? Is the all Kydex CTAC that much thinner than the MTAC or Defender? Or is the difference negligible?

Obviously both seem to have great service and the Comp-Tac holsters will likely be here in a week vs 14-16 weeks with K&D, but my CHL won't be here for at least that long either...
 
#2 ·
The smell and comfort of leather......or.......the kydex(?)
I've got a K&D that I'm waiting on and I've had a MTAC and CTAC for over a year now. The MTAC get's the most use 'cause it covers all my needs, concealment of my G23, comfort in the heat with minimal concealment clothing, and quality and security. Not taking away from K&D, I can't wait for my leather from him, I'm like a kid waiting on Santa to 'hurry up'(!)......but the MTAC does agreat service for me and it'll get to ya pretty quick, vice the 12-16 week turnaround on custom leather.

I say order a MTAC AND a K&D Defender!
 
#3 ·
lol... I figured I'd get some "Just get both"... and eventually I probably will (especially if one or the other doesn't work for me), but for now I'm just gonna grab one and hope it works for me.
 
#21 ·
lol... I figured I'd get some "Just get both"...
That's because we all know that you eventually WILL get both. - We don't have to tell you to.. :wink:

And If I had to bet, that's probably what Kevin was thinking. - Consider this: when YOU thought you were just asking a question about the features of a merchant's products, what KEVIN perceived was yet another person asking him to defend his product against a lower priced competitor. - One that is a flat sheet of leather and a couple of pressed-plastic bits, compared to his hand crafted leather works.

I bet it's more inline to assume his answer isn't so much translated as "go away kid, you're bothering me" as much as " If you don't know what you are looking for, an M-tac is a good choice. I won't be able to convince you via eMail that my product is worth the price unless you have a baseline experience in CC."

- but that's just a guess on my part.


Oh, and I just got my first Bluegrass Holster... Love it. - I had Brock modify the standard design for a one-off piece for me, and his work is TOP notch. - I had to send it back once, but that's because of the custom tweaks I wanted and we both (Brock and I ) were half-expecting that.


...
going to be making some 2.5" belt loops for me so I can carry while kilted...
please, please, PLEASE... post some pics of that. Now you've got me REALLY curious.
 
#4 ·
While I don't have a 1911, I do have all the holsters listed above and they are fairly different IMO.

The CTAC is nice in that the Kydex fits perfectly, requires zero break-in and the rigid Kydex means you'll never have a binding issue. Smooth draws every time.

The main downside is that it doesn't have the big, flat surface area that the other two do in order to make it quite as comfortable, and it is more functional than good looking.

The MTAC looks a lot nicer and has a nice comfy back side. The only issue I have with mine is they had problems with over-retention until they broke in. I guess I'd just be prepared for wear it around the house for a while until it breaks in. I would *not* just strap this one on and wear it out until you wear it for a while and test the retention.

While I have all these holsters, the rest are in the 'box' now that I have the K&D.

Retention is a bit tighter than the CTAC, but I've never had it stick like the MTAC. While it did break in a bit (form around the curve of my body), it was pretty good out of the box.

But in general, it's just a different beast. A better beast. A prettier beast. A lot prettier beast.

All are plenty thin.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably order a CTAC for now and get a K&D on order.

The CTAC won't require any break-in, will be sure to arrive quickly and will fit your firearm perfectly. It isn't as sexy as the others, but 'it just works'.

But you'll want the K&D in the end, so might as well get it on order. They don't charge your credit card until your holster starts being made.

Good luck,

-john
 
#5 ·
I have both the MTAC and Dakota Defender...
I needed a new holster around the time when the MTAC came out. When I saw what it offered, I did not even consider the CTAC. I have heard that the CTAC is a little thinner than the MTAC. I did not have any retention problems as described by bzdog. The draw has always been smooth and I can increase retention if I want. However, it is a little tough for me to get a high level of retention from the MTAC, even after tightening the screws. One nice feature of the MTAC is that you can buy a new body-piece and use the holster to carry a different gun. This makes it cheaper to switch to carrying something different. However, I would not rely on this for two guns that you switch between. It would mean that you'd have to change holster bodies often.

The Dakota Defender.... is simply gorgeous! The craftsmanship is a huge step above the MTAC. The fit and finish of the gun in the holster is on a different level. I do not have much experience carrying with this holster yet, but it is similar to the MTAC in its adjustability and tuckable nature. It seems a little thicker than the MTAC. The retention was initially pretty solid, but leaving the gun in the holster overnight and performing a dozen draws is all it took to ease the retention. The MTAC has grown on me, so it is too early to say how well the DD will carry after I have used it for several months. One noticable feature of the DD is the absence of excess material under the bottom of the trigger guard. There is leather covering the trigger, of couse, but there is a lot of clearance to allow a quick and secure grip of the gun. That is a nice feature that can't really be done on a "universal" holster like the MTAC.

For reference, the DD carries a S&W M&P40. The MTAC was used to carry the M&P40 and it is now setup to carry the Kel-tec PF-9.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for all the great input guys. I was actually leaning towards K&D due to the initial responses, but then I had this email exchange with Kevin from K&D (I sent him an email when I posted here):

Me said:
So I'm looking for an adjustable IWB holster and I'm down to either the MTAC from Comp-Tac or your Dakota Defender... I was wondering (aside from being all leather), are there benefits to your design over the MTAC?
Kevin Manley's response:

Kevin Manley said:
Mr. Dooley:

Thank you for your interest in K&D Holsters. You'll be much better served and happier with the MTAC.

Regards,
Kevin
K&D Holsters
Now I found that to be an odd response to an honest question... Everything I've heard is that Kevin is really great at working with customers to get exactly what they need, etc... So I sent this email to maybe clarify a bit:

Me said:
Huh? I must admit I’m very confused by your response. Here I am trying to pick out my first holster and I honestly don’t understand what differences there are between your product and one from the competition that is similar, and yet very different and you just tell me to buy your competitor’s product? Either you don’t like being in business, you’re having a bad day, or somehow I insulted you. If the latter is the case I apologize, as this was not my intention.
And I just got this response:

Kevin Manley said:
Mr. Dooley:

I did not take your inquiry as being insulted. I just gave you my frank, honest opinion. Thank you for considering K&D Holsters.

Regards,
Kevin
K&D Holsters
So it seems that for some reason K&D Holsters doesn't want my business... Unless you guys have a different view on this, I guess my money's going to Comp-Tac. It's a shame too, K&D sounds like it would have been a good choice from what you guys said.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for all the great input guys. I was actually leaning towards K&D due to the initial responses, but then I had this email exchange with Kevin from K&D (I sent him an email when I posted here):



Kevin Manley's response:



Now I found that to be an odd response to an honest question... Everything I've heard is that Kevin is really great at working with customers to get exactly what they need, etc... So I sent this email to maybe clarify a bit:



And I just got this response:



So it seems that for some reason K&D Holsters doesn't want my business... Unless you guys have a different view on this, I guess my money's going to Comp-Tac. It's a shame too, K&D sounds like it would have been a good choice from what you guys said.
That is strange, while I have never sent him a email, I have spoke to him on the phone a few times. He has always been polite and I never felt like he wanted to get off the phone fast. One time I called and didn't get him or wait for the anwsering machine, before I could sit down he called me back. But if I got the response you got I would do the same thing.
 
#7 ·
Was that all you said, or did you provide a more detailed description of what you were looking for?

Certainly, I think Kevin tries not to spend a lot of time answering emails as this takes him away from making holsters and he already has more demand than he can supply.

Of course, I certainly would be a bit disappointed with such a response.

I do feel the K&D is a superior product over the Comp-TAC offerings and I'm not sure I'd let one goofy interaction deprive you of a good product. Certainly lots of people here have had good interactions.

That said, they are different and depending on your needs, you might prefer one over the other. No matter what, it will take a fair while to get your K&D so you likely need something else in the mean time.

-john
 
#8 ·
That was literally every word that passed between us upto that point.

I completely understand that some people just don't do well with email communication, especially when they've got (what they perceive to be) more important things to do, but this was really a pretty big kick in the face for me - being a new guy who knows absolutely nothing about holsters and was seeking an honest opinion from someone who is supposed to have top-notch customer service...

I'm taking my CHL class a week from today and from all accounts here in TX it'll take as long for me to get my license as it would for me to get the K&D, so I'm really not too worried about that... If I got the license and the holster was still a few more months out I'd get something then...
 
#9 ·
Well, sorry you got off to a bad start. I don't have time to write more right now, but do a search in this forum for each of those holsters. These three have been discussed quite a bit and you should be able to find a lot of good pictures as well.

-john
 
#10 ·
I can't speak for everybody, and would not want to, but from my experience and talking to a number locally as well as online... you will most likely purchase a number of holsters to find out which one you like best... and you will sell or give away a number of them. It's part of the life of conceal carrying.

K&D holster's are excellent holsters and I've talked to Kevin... he is very busy, as are a lot of other holster manufactures/artists. If you like leather, you will like K&D holsters. There are a lot of good holster makers out there... if you don't like Kevin because of his email, then call High Noon, or Mitch Rosen, or any number of other holster makes out there. That being said, some like plastic, or whatever Comp-TAC holsters are make of... personally, I'm not one of them.

I hope you find what you are looking for... I like what I have in holster's right now, but I'm always looking to add another good option, because I don't believe that one holster can fit into every option for carrying... not to mention that I need a few holsters for all the different guns that I currently own.

Just my 2 cents... maybe a little more since I usually don't type this much.
 
#11 ·
I take it to mean if you want a K&D then order it. A K&D is a custom leather holster and has been proven to be at the top of the new A-list in holster design. I wouldn't take offense, an MTAC would serve your purpose.

Bottom line is you asked for a man's opinion and you got it. Now the issue is you don't agree with his opinion.
 
#12 ·
No, my issue is that he seemed rude and gave a response that basically said he didn't want my business. I gave him no information about myself, I asked an honest question about the merits of his design versus another and he just shipped me off to a competitor.

If he's this difficult to deal with while trying to get information, I certainly don't want to risk the possibility that I'm not 100% happy with his product and have to go through a return process to get a replacement or a refund... I can only imagine how difficult that would be.

Thanks for all the replies guys, I've made a decision and I'll post a review of the holster I buy once I've had some time to break it in.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I personally have had many good experiences with Kevin. He has explained many things to me that I needed to know...I would try the C-tac or M-Tac and experiment.You can have these holsters in the matter of about a week.See what you like and then personally call Kevin and talk to him about what you are looking for in a holster...Buying holsters is kinda like a crap shoot,you need to buy and try. Usually you can always get you money out of them selling them on forums like this if they don't work for you.
 
#13 ·
K.D. have you decided on which one to get already? If so which one and how is it working out for you?

Hope you don't mind me tagging along with you on this thread, but I'm about to buy one of these two also (either M.T.A.C. or C.T.A.C.), and have a couple of questions of my own. Do C.T.A.C. and M.T.A.C. owners feel the latter is kind of bulky, comparatively? I notice that since the leather backing is a one-size fits-all-pistols design, it looks a little overkill area-wise for the smaller ones. Or is this a nonfactor, in function? Does anyone find the rounded bottom part extends so low that it prints, bumps, or gets sat upon etc? I hear it eventually contours to your shape, so hopefully not. Also, does anyone tuck with these (if so, does one work better than the other in this regard)?

B.T.W. sorry to hear you had an uncomfortable exchange with K.D. Holsters. Just wanted to give you an F.Y.I. in case you contact other holster makers with similar inquiries. WHile you might never get another response like that again, I know alot of craftsman especially would respond similarly. You didn't intend it like this, but with no other information than specifying "adjustable I.W.B. holster", then mentioning the M.T.A.C., it almost can't be interpreted as anything other than personally convince me that yours is better. Since you know the "on paper" features from his product descriptions and F.A.Q., all that he could have done is restate from his website how his made-to-order product's quality, craftsmanship, and materials are superior, but it would be in the context of "vs that of Comp-Tac's" (as a direct response to "which one yours or the M.T.A.C.", in a vacuum). And I could see why he wouldn't want to do that. If I were proud of my product, and already had customers lining up and waiting for it- I might have suggested you do the same. I don't think he want's (or feels he needs) to personally convince/assure anyone (would rather his many satisfied customers do that). But for the record, you were definitely NOT insulting at all with that question (just like he told you, so I wouldn't worry about that); and neither was his reply! J.M.O. and Y.M.M.V.
 
#17 ·
K.D. have you decided on which one to get already? If so which one and how is it working out for you?
I did (it ended up being none of the above) and it should be here any day now... I keep my fingers crossed whenever I check my mailbox at work...lol
 
#14 ·
jlh26oo.....First off, Welcome Aboard to the forum!

I have both the CTAC and MTAC. The MTAC is only slightly bulker, I really don't notice it. As for the 'one-size-fits-all'.....I sugest wear it as it comes, if it needs adjusting you could cut some of the leather away. Do a search and you'll find it. One of our members posted pictures of his 'adjusted' MTAC.
 
#24 ·
Thanks!

Yeah, I don't think I'd alter it. Either it would work for me as-is, or I'd just swap it out. I'm certain the C.T.A.C. would be fine comfort wise, since I currently use a Comp-Tac U.C. Pro (bare kydex) and it's fine. What's hard for me to deny about the M.T.A.C. is its VERSATILITY.
 
#16 ·
I have the CTAC and MTAC. Of the two, the MTAC is definately more comfortable IMO. The leather feels better than the kydex does against the body. I have no experience with K&D.

Good luck.
 
#25 ·
The Mason-Dixon from Bluegrass Holsters... Brock dialogued with me and answered my questions and concerns and is actually going to be making some 2.5" belt loops for me so I can carry while kilted...
__________________
That's funny, I went exactly the opposite. Due to reasons I won't bring up on the forum I decided against Bluegrass and called Kevin today and ordered one of his new "Thunderbird" holsters with a tweak here and there. Kevin was very pleasant to deal with and made the transaction very easy. I know it will be worth the wait as I have had other holsters from him.
I posted a thread a couple weeks ago about an idea I had for a convertable IWB/OWB holster, turns out Kevin had already had this design in the works, even though others think they reinvented the wheel with this design, Kevin calls this new holster "The Thunderbird" and he should have photos on his site soon. Of course I will post photos of mine when I receive it, around Thanksgiving!! :danceban:

NCH
 
#19 ·
The Mason-Dixon from Bluegrass Holsters... Brock dialogued with me and answered my questions and concerns and is actually going to be making some 2.5" belt loops for me so I can carry while kilted...
 
#26 ·
I have one on order also I cant wait.
I already got the Bluegrass Holsters Ghost for my HK USP with the gator trim from Brock and I liked it so much I thought I would try the Mason-Dixon for my colt officers. Brock was great to work with and I like the fact he listened to what I was asking for and was willing to put the time into customizing. Since I have never carried OWB before the Mason-Dixon convertable seemed like a good way to hedge my bet.

I will post some pictures and let you know how I like it soon as it arives.
 
#22 ·
I have owned all three you mentioned and ended up selling the Defender. Beautiful holster, high quality work but couldn't quite get the fit I needed. The CTAC was the champ until I got an MTAC. No looking back....if you can't get that thing to fit than forget about IWB. Seriously.

Very comfortable and honestly, I mentioned this in another thread but why would I want to put an M&P 45 in a $150 leather holster that I wear INSIDE MY PANTS.:ticking: Who cares how it looks...comfort and the ability to conceal my weapon is what I want!
 
#23 ·
K&D makes a great holster. I ordered a Dakota Defender in February. I think I got it in late May or early June. Their website states that they have a lengthy lead time and they mean it. I really liked the holster.

After using it for a few weeks on some really hot days, I noticed that the black suede on the back of the holster was staining my clothes. I asked Kevin if this was common and what I should do about it. He said that's never happened before and offered to replace the suede if I sent it back. So I sent back about a month ago. I'm still waiting for it to come back.

K&D does make a holster that is worth waiting for. It's a shame that I have to hide it when I wear it. If your anxious to get a new holster, order the MTAC. If you don't mind waiting, a K&D holster is worth the wait. Or order the MTAC and then order a Dakota Defender. Having too many holsters is as hard as having too many guns.
 
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