MTAC???.....Milt Sparks, K&D, Bulman etc, WATCH OUT!!

This is a discussion on MTAC???.....Milt Sparks, K&D, Bulman etc, WATCH OUT!! within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; No one needs to worry. With the number of shooters growing exponentially, there is plenty of market to go around....

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Thread: MTAC???.....Milt Sparks, K&D, Bulman etc, WATCH OUT!!

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    No one needs to worry. With the number of shooters growing exponentially, there is plenty of market to go around.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

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  3. #17
    Member Array TwinCarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    My thoughts are that this thread seems borderline silly.

    How can anyone else know if you really want to buy a used VersaMax or a brand new MTAC?

    And if you wanted to buy a used VersaMax then you could probably get it quicker a new MTAC.

    And then I am even more confused because you are raving about your recently purchased MTAC but, then you say:
    "I haven't had the chance to wear it yet."

    But, I'll move along (still staying somewhat confused) and just go ahead and answer your direct question:

    Question:
    "Do holster makers like the GREAT Milt Sparks, Bulman, Del Fatti, K&D, Kramer and so on, need to worry?"


    Answer:
    No, they obviously do not need to worry at all since they are always as busy as is humanly possible making fine custom leather holsters.

    The real question that you need to ponder on is:
    WHY DO the great custom leather holster makers HAVE such long waiting times?

    HINT: It is not because people just love to order and then wait for holsters.
    Yes, I agree it does seem a little silly. But I guess that's why it's interesting.

    In regards to my recent MTAC purchase, I guess I'm not the best example to my question or concern. To those who know me (not many), I'm basically a HOLSTER JUNKIE! I'll try anything! Because of the recent popularity of the MTAC, I decided to order myself one, just to see what it’s all about.

    My question and concern is geared mostly towards people who are new to holsters and came to this forum seeking advice on what to buy. That's the real issue.

    Makes sense?
    Last edited by TwinCarry; July 2nd, 2008 at 07:22 PM. Reason: correction
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  4. #18
    Member Array MSU Spartan's Avatar
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    I'd be curious to know how many own an MTAC because they ordered it to use until their custom leather showed up sometime in the future? I know thats what I did. I really like the MTAC, but have a strong affinity for good leather!
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  5. #19
    Member Array TwinCarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lance22 View Post
    I don't think anyone is shaking in their boots.

    Comp-Tac and every other kydex holster maker on the planet aren't going to put a dent in the market for fine leather holsters. The reason is simple. Leather is beautiful and useful. It has a natural, comforting feel, it appeals to nostalgia, it is at once elegant and practical. This is a thing that people will always want, and quite frankly Comp-Tac does not offer this in their product line.

    Kydex is faster, weather resistant, and utilitarian. I believe there is a time and place for kydex, but that time and place is not "everywhere" and not "all the time". It lacks the higher, etherial qualities of leather but that's ok ... it's meant to be practical. The success of leather does not diminish the need for a product like Kydex and visa-versa. Like yourself, I use both and am not an evangelist for one over the other. Sounds like we are all on the 'same page' as far as that goes.

    Customer service is another matter, and one to which all businessmen should take heed. Maybe there are few craftsmen who have been around long enough, and their business secure enough that they can have a low tolerance for BS or perhaps do little to encourage new business. This is ok because it gives an opening for new holster makers. There a lot of very, very talented craftsmen who are just cutting their teeth in the business. As stated their turn around times are fast and their eagerness to please is not yet weathered by the bad taste of idiots. These are the next Alessi's and DelFatti's. And when that day comes, the burden of success will be such that the volume of their back-orders will make somebody want to post about them being 'out of touch'. LOL.

    Hey - CONGRATS to K&D ... You've not been on the block for very long and already you are taking heat with the big boys! Maybe this post means you've "made it" ? Smell the roses, my friend!

    EDITED - reread your new post. That Kramer almost looks like it's made for J-Frame. Yup - I understand you like both leather and Kydex and are not dissing one or the other.
    Wow! I really enjoyed this. I wish I could write like you. Very well said. Thank you!

    One of the reasons this topic is very important to me, is because it reminded me of my first day at a gun range/store to purchase my first gun. After the background check and all is clear with the gun, I asked the salesmen "So what holster should I get?" (I promise you at the time, I had NO CLUE where to start!). I was truly a virgin when it comes to holsters. Never even thought on looking at Gun Forums like this. I didn't even know they existed (embarrassing). So the salesman showed me a Blackhawk Serpa holster with the retention button. Told me all the reasons why the holster was the best in the market. Well because I didn't know any better I said "heck I'll take it!” Cost me $50 plus tax.

    What's my point? After a few weeks, and researching more about holsters, did I really want a Kydex holster? - NO. Do I really want a holster with a safety button or retention or what ever that’s called? - NO. Did I even want an OWB holster rather than an IWB? NO NO and NO!!! (this is how I felt at the time).

    So are MTACs really the best IWB one can advise? Or is this the latest trend just like the Blackhawk Serpa's when they were top at their game? Going back to my original example of someone wanting advice on the best IWB for his G-26, I don't even recall the person asking for a tuckable holster but yet the majority of the responses were MTACs? So are we misleading this person? Just like my Blackhawk experience? Or are the MTACs truly the new age of holsters? (hopefully this is still within our topic).
    Last edited by TwinCarry; July 2nd, 2008 at 07:40 PM. Reason: typo
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  6. #20
    Member Array TwinCarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    In short, no.

    Kydex, or plastic if you will, attracts a different caliber of carrier than someone who is willing to wait for a true handmade leather holster. I have found that cops, always underpaid and trying to stretch a dollar, first time carriers and younger people used to "instant gratification" seem to be the one's that use plastic holsters.

    I realize I'm speaking in generalities, but someone that is really concerned about concealed carry, and takes pride in owning a fine product, like a high end motorcycle, car or nice home is willing to wait for a superior product.

    The Kydex Holsters are popular at the Range, and I even own a couple, but for day to day carry I find leather to be optimal because it is more comfortable against my skin. I've used plastic holsters to, "get me by" until I can receive a good holster from Milt Sparks, Matt Del Fatti and others, but I don't rely on them exclusively.

    With the number of concealed carriers in the population today we have seen the wait times for handmade holsters either get longer or the makers have stopped taking orders in order to catch up to their backlog. Thus kydex fills a "niche" much like a leather or nylon holster from Bianchi or Galco, at least for me.

    Once you find a good Holster you won't go to anything else. I've been carrying so long that I pretty much know what works for me. So I usually only have one or two Holsters per gun. The "pre-made" manufactured stuff is good to give you an idea of what you want in a Holster, but I can't see paying for a Kydex Holster when a handmade leather one isn't that much more. I'm referring to a good Kydex Holster and not the $12 Paddle Holsters I see on the Gun Store shelves.

    The mark of a professional is someone that you can't tell they are armed. This is most likely achieved with a good quality leather holster. Yes, it's costly, to a degree, but the makers have, for the most part, been making holsters long enough that they know what works and what doesn't.

    Matt Del Fatti asked my about my inseam, height, build and what gun I want to carry before I ordered. This is not something you can get from Galco or Bianchi on their off the shelf stuff. I never had Comp-Tac ask me those type of questions either. Milt Sparks asked some questions very similar the first time I ordered from them, to ensure that I would get a holster that would be optimal for me.

    I have not found the Kydex Holsters to be comfortable for daily carry. Also, those Belt Clips are a dead give-away to what you are hiding, much more than a leather snap loop, at least in my expirience.

    So, the long-winded answer to your question is, maybe, but I doubt it. Plastic attracts a different caliber of person than a handmade custom holster.

    Biker
    Man, do we have some experts here or what? I really ENJOYED this one too! My favorite line happens to be his first "Kydex, or plastic if you will, attracts a different caliber of carrier than someone who is willing to wait for a true handmade leather holster." - NICE!
    Last edited by TwinCarry; July 2nd, 2008 at 07:47 PM. Reason: correction
    SA EMP ~ Sig P232s ~ Walther PP ~ Makarov ~ S&W 442 ~ Ruger LCP
    HK USP Compact ~ HK P2000sk ~ RIA Tactical ~ FN Hi-Power ~ Sig GSR C3

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array KevinDooley's Avatar
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    The way I look at it, no one needs to be worried - kydex or leather makers. There are as many choices for firearms and how to carry them as there attitudes and styles and people out there.

    Some people only care about function. Some people need a fancy BBQ gun and rig to show off to their friends. Some people are roundish and others are slim jims. Some people are dirt poor and some people are filthy rich. There's just too many different types of people out there who like guns for anyone to have to worry about their business being stolen.

    I think of it like this... There are some tools that are simply utilitarian in nature and others that may be the same type of tool, but they are stylish or more comfy or more than functional. For instance, I bought a Hungarian SA-85 (AK pattern rifle) in a special run on a forum... it's one of only 50 exactly like it. When I bought it I wanted a rifle to show off and it nicely fit the bill. It had nicely refinished wood and was in great shape.

    Then I got concerned about home defense. With limited funding and my options of either using an Enfield No 1 Mk III or an AK style rifle for home defense, I chose the AK. But I needed some different functionality out of it now... So I bought an E. German folding stock for it, along with some polymer furniture. There's a rail and a Surefire G2 mounted on it now too. It's now had several thousand rounds through it and it's a little dinged up, but I know exactly how to use it in a plethora of situations. Of course, now I don't have a pretty show-off rifle... So I'll have to look at buying something I can show off.

    Holsters aren't too far off. Sometimes you just want something that secures the pistol - maybe for range use - and kydex is perfect for that. In fact, I have a kydex slide type holster that I use at the range. Sometimes you need to conceal your weapon - and for some people only leather is comfortable in that instance. Some people just like nice things and for that... custom leather is pretty stinkin' nice.

    Well, I've probably rambled on enough. I'm glad there are so many options out there so that people can find exactly what they need. No one should worry and no one needs to be uppity about either choice. Both fill needs and both will be around for a long, long time.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

    The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost

  8. #22
    New Member Array Sicilia Mike's Avatar
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    Anyone advertising a 6 plus month wait should have worries. I won't wait that long, and I question those who do. There is no need to tolerate such a long wait given the numerous craftsmen that can do better. If Rolex can build my watch start to finish in just under a year why 6 months for a holster? A holster that took longer to make than my gun? No thanks.

  9. #23
    Member Array wagglebee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sicilia Mike View Post
    Anyone advertising a 6 plus month wait should have worries. I won't wait that long, and I question those who do. There is no need to tolerate such a long wait given the numerous craftsmen that can do better. If Rolex can build my watch start to finish in just under a year why 6 months for a holster? A holster that took longer to make than my gun? No thanks.
    From everything I've been told, it takes less than an hour to make the holster. The wait is because there are so many people in line. This means that they have NOTHING to worry about. The folks at Milt Sparks, and the individual holster makers like Del Fatti and Alessi make fantastic products and many of us are happy to wait for them.

    If you don't want to wait, buy something from Galco, Kramer or the other mass producers. You will pay about the same and get a quality product, it just won't be custom.

  10. #24
    Member Array whamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinCarry View Post
    Man, do we have some experts here or what? I really ENJOYED this one too! My favorite line happens to be his first "Kydex, or plastic if you will, attracts a different caliber of carrier than someone who is willing to wait for a true handmade leather holster." - NICE!

    Totally untrue......I've had several high end custom leather holsters and none of them beats the MTAC.

  11. #25
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    I think the great thing about living in America is that we can all shop around for the holster that we want.
    If we don't want to wait we can get one quicker.
    If we don't want to spend a lot then we can get one cheaper.
    If we don't want leather then we can buy one in Kydex and if not Kydex then Carbon Fiber.
    We can wear one OWB or IWB or at the shoulder or ankle.

    Me personally I don't really care what the "other guy" carries in.
    It's whatever floats the boat.
    Be happy.
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  12. #26
    Member Array Prvt. Toter's Avatar
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    Paper or Plastic? Kydex or leather?

    I think it is really a matter of choice / preference. I have a couple of CompTac holsters and they are quite useable, however: I PREFER leather. When I bought the Kydex I wanted something and I wanted it NOW... Comptac has excellent service and the turnaround is unbeatable... having said that... The Milt Sparks leather I own was waited on with much more anticipation and ultimately when it arrived it was much more satisfying. Kydex or Leather are truely two different animals, PAPER OR PLASTIC. Both serve the purpose...like a Kia will get you to work, but a Cadilac will do it in style...

    Room to worrry? I do not think the truely SKILLED holstermakers have anything to worry about. Additionally, their are many new makers on the block (some almost directly copying the greats), but the mainstays (Alessi, Sparks, Rosen and others climbing the ranks) continue to be the benchmarks and continue to have business booked a year ahead of capacity. I have recently (within the last year) ordered holsters from K & D, Brigade Gunleather, AJC, etc, and I will tell you they all have a WAIT TIME. In some cases I ordered from the new guys simply because the Alessi's, Sparks, etc either did not have the blank I needed (Sprinfield micro with rail) or I did not have the patience to wait the extra 6-8 weeks of the bigger guys... So, lets take a look at these so called new kids on the block... TT, Brigade, UBG, and many more... First off, lets face it, most if not all of these guys make a GOOD holster --- AND also notice that as their reputations have grown, they too have begun to have a longer lead times. Yet even with the new influx of talent, the demand for good leather is still outpacing capacity of the craftsman to make them. Even with the lower lead time offerings of the kydex and hybrids on the market (Mtac, Crossbreed, etc) the Leather Makers are still backed up and getting more backed up daily.

    At this point I must admit that I do not own a hybrid (MTAC or CROSSBREED) but after I finish typing this I will be placing an order with Eric... I suspect I will be very pleased with the product and I also suspect I will continue to purcahse quality leather holsters. Really, can one ever have TOO many holster options?...
    Last edited by Prvt. Toter; July 2nd, 2008 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Learning English...as a first language...SPELLING!
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array NYcarry's Avatar
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    I like to own a variety of all of them, just to keep my holster box full heh.

    But if it were me waiting on a Custom holster, I would steer clear of the price gougers on ebay, and opt for any MTAC ect, till my order was fulfilled.

    I also just can't bring myself to buy the top end holsters used, so I order new and get a readily available brand to hold me over.

    I love a variety of holsters, It's like I am addicting to em or something lol



    Seriously I have to have several models and several colors of the same models to match my clothes, same goes for mag holders, It really is a sickness I swear

  14. #28
    Member Array Prvt. Toter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacNewton View Post
    I like to own a variety of all of them, just to keep my holster box full heh.

    I love a variety of holsters, It's like I am addicting to em or something lol



    :
    Ditto on your box and your addictions... maybe we should start a thread "show us your holster box"
    If your not packin' your slackin'

    Its better to have and not need than to need and not have, keep it safe but keep it loaded!

    USN : Desert Storm

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    I think holsters like the MTAC will cut into the custom market. There are three reasons people buy customs (and pay premium for it): Functionality, Comfort and Looks. For Functionality and comfort, the MTAC is good enough, maybe a tad better when it comes to functionality. The only thing you get from a custom holster is the more individual look. But .... did you realize that these are usually concealed holsters ;-). I don't think a lot of people will pay twice for a customer holster (compared to an MTAC) AND wait 6 months.
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

  16. #30
    Member Array CajunChuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Spartan View Post
    I'd be curious to know how many own an MTAC because they ordered it to use until their custom leather showed up sometime in the future? I know thats what I did. I really like the MTAC, but have a strong affinity for good leather!
    I did the exact above mentioned. It was a very nice holster, but when I got my custom leather perfectly molded to my piece...well, apples and oranges.

    And to answer you question....I will respond with another question...

    Is Ferrari worried about not selling their cars?

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