MTAC???.....Milt Sparks, K&D, Bulman etc, WATCH OUT!!

MTAC???.....Milt Sparks, K&D, Bulman etc, WATCH OUT!!

This is a discussion on MTAC???.....Milt Sparks, K&D, Bulman etc, WATCH OUT!! within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I responded to a recent thread, for someone seeking advise for the best IWB for his Glock 26. I notice a very interesting fact. I ...

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Thread: MTAC???.....Milt Sparks, K&D, Bulman etc, WATCH OUT!!

  1. #1
    Member Array TwinCarry's Avatar
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    MTAC???.....Milt Sparks, K&D, Bulman etc, WATCH OUT!!

    I responded to a recent thread, for someone seeking advise for the best IWB for his Glock 26. I notice a very interesting fact. I decided to copy and transfer my answer in a new thread in hopes to get as many responses as possible.

    Here it is:

    "Wow, MTAC is really making a name for itself!!! I posted 3 Milt Sparks IWB holsters (VM II, Watch 6 & Summer Special) and so far not one member replied a "+1". Almost 95% of the members who responded, recommended an MTAC !!!

    Hmmmmm, I did recently purchase an MTAC for my Hi-Power. I haven't had the chance to wear it yet. I guess I need to try it on soon to see what all the HYPE is about!!!

    I've notice holster makers like MTAC, Comp-Tac, Crossbreed etc. are very popular lately due to thier holsters that - Does the job, reasonable cost, great customer service and most importantly SHORT Turnaround Times!!! This may also be the reason why custom used holsters are not as easy to sell compared to a few years ago due to the holsters mentioned above (my opinion). For example, do I really want to buy a used MS VM II for $160 or should I just get a BRAND NEW MTAC for almost half the price and get it in less than a week???"



    Let's make this thread more interesting and FUN! Who ever comes up with the BEST ANSWER (sorry, but I'll be the judge of that), will win a USED KRAMER Horsehide IWB #3. I will NOT charge for shipping either. I PROMISE, no strings attached. Unfortunately, I don't know what pistol this holster is for.

    Here's a history of this mysterious holster; I purchased this a year ago from ebay for $75 plus shipping. When recieved, it didn't fit my 3" 1911. I was so upset that I didn't bother returning it. It's been sitting in my holster drawer for over a year now, so I might as well put this holster to use. This is too big for my 1911 3", and remember it's a USED holster but....... a used Kramer is still a KRAMER right?

    I will anounce the winner this Sunday 07/06/2008 at approximately 7pm (Central Time).

    BTW, if you're not interested in this holster, can you please respond anyway? I'd like to hear your thoughts and will appreciate it very much. Thank you!

    So here's my question:

    Do custom holster makers like the GREAT Milt Sparks, Bulman, Del Fatti, K&D, Kramer and so on, need to worry about the latest holster trend like the MTAC???




    Last edited by TwinCarry; July 2nd, 2008 at 06:27 PM. Reason: added comment
    SA EMP ~ Sig P232s ~ Walther PP ~ Makarov ~ S&W 442 ~ Ruger LCP
    HK USP Compact ~ HK P2000sk ~ RIA Tactical ~ FN Hi-Power ~ Sig GSR C3


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Your question is not clear to me. What is it that your actually asking? If it's "easy" to sell used custom leather? Is that meant to ask if there's any merit to the idea that custom leather has a long turn-over on the used market due to the relatively short wait for a new MTAC, Crossbreed, etc?

    If that is in fact your question, I would disagree. The buyer of Milt Sparks leather generally has a discerning taste that wouldn't incline him or her to purchase holster wear that features kydex. Not only that, but unless a Sparks holster is priced at a point which is higher than their nominal cost from the manufacturer, which seems to be commonplace lately, they usually sell fairly quickly on the used market because of the six month or longer lead time required for a new Sparks product order and their high quality.

    Just my two cents. YMMV.
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    I have tried several different holsters and I have to say, the MTAC is the most comfortable. Doesn't seem right, but it is. Plus, with the kydex, it makes reholstering much easier.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

  4. #4
    Member Array TwinCarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moga View Post
    Your question is not clear to me. What is it that your actually asking? If it's "easy" to sell used custom leather? Is that meant to ask if there's any merit to the idea that custom leather has a long turn-over on the used market due to the relatively short wait for a new MTAC, Crossbreed, etc?

    If that is in fact your question, I would disagree. The buyer of Milt Sparks leather generally has a discerning taste that wouldn't incline him or her to purchase holster wear that features kydex. Not only that, but unless a Sparks holster is priced at a point which is higher than their nominal cost from the manufacturer, which seems to be commonplace lately, they usually sell fairly quickly on the used market because of the six month or longer lead time required for a new Sparks product order and their high quality.

    Just my two cents. YMMV.
    Great point!!! I'm sorry but I didn't make my question clear enough. I edited my post to hopefully explain it well.

    Thanks again for your reponse!
    SA EMP ~ Sig P232s ~ Walther PP ~ Makarov ~ S&W 442 ~ Ruger LCP
    HK USP Compact ~ HK P2000sk ~ RIA Tactical ~ FN Hi-Power ~ Sig GSR C3

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    I Love my MTAC....same goes for my CTAC. I LOVE custom leather as well. Do the custom leather makers need to worry? I don't think they do. I will always want, and purchase, custom, quality leather products. I will always have a MTAC/CTAC too. They all have thier place.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

  6. #6
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    My thoughts are that this thread seems borderline silly.

    How can anyone else know if you really want to buy a used VersaMax or a brand new MTAC?

    And if you wanted to buy a used VersaMax then you could probably get it quicker a new MTAC.

    And then I am even more confused because you are raving about your recently purchased MTAC but, then you say:
    "I haven't had the chance to wear it yet."

    But, I'll move along (still staying somewhat confused) and just go ahead and answer your direct question:

    Question:
    "Do holster makers like the GREAT Milt Sparks, Bulman, Del Fatti, K&D, Kramer and so on, need to worry?"


    Answer:
    No, they obviously do not need to worry at all since they are always as busy as is humanly possible making fine custom leather holsters.

    The real question that you need to ponder on is:
    WHY DO the great custom leather holster makers HAVE such long waiting times?

    HINT: It is not because people just love to order and then wait for holsters.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array lance22's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone is shaking in their boots.

    Comp-Tac and every other kydex holster maker on the planet aren't going to put a dent in the market for fine leather holsters. The reason is simple. Leather is beautiful and useful. It has a natural, comforting feel, it appeals to nostalgia, it is at once elegant and practical. This is a thing that people will always want, and quite frankly Comp-Tac does not offer this in their product line.

    Kydex is faster, weather resistant, and utilitarian. I believe there is a time and place for kydex, but that time and place is not "everywhere" and not "all the time". It lacks the higher, etherial qualities of leather but that's ok ... it's meant to be practical. The success of leather does not diminish the need for a product like Kydex and visa-versa. Like yourself, I use both and am not an evangelist for one over the other. Sounds like we are all on the 'same page' as far as that goes.

    Customer service is another matter, and one to which all businessmen should take heed. Maybe there are few craftsmen who have been around long enough, and their business secure enough that they can have a low tolerance for BS or perhaps do little to encourage new business. This is ok because it gives an opening for new holster makers. There a lot of very, very talented craftsmen who are just cutting their teeth in the business. As stated their turn around times are fast and their eagerness to please is not yet weathered by the bad taste of idiots. These are the next Alessi's and DelFatti's. And when that day comes, the burden of success will be such that the volume of their back-orders will make somebody want to post about them being 'out of touch'. LOL.

    Hey - CONGRATS to K&D ... You've not been on the block for very long and already you are taking heat with the big boys! Maybe this post means you've "made it" ? Smell the roses, my friend!

    EDITED - reread your new post. That Kramer almost looks like it's made for J-Frame. Yup - I understand you like both leather and Kydex and are not dissing one or the other.

  8. #8
    Member Array TwinCarry's Avatar
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    Hey guys,

    Thanks so much for your responses, AWESOME!.

    I made this thread a little more interesting. Please read my post again. I added a prize for the BEST answer. So if you're interested either keep your answer or make some changes if you care to.

    Thanks again! BRING IT ON!!!
    SA EMP ~ Sig P232s ~ Walther PP ~ Makarov ~ S&W 442 ~ Ruger LCP
    HK USP Compact ~ HK P2000sk ~ RIA Tactical ~ FN Hi-Power ~ Sig GSR C3

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Do custom holster makers like the GREAT Milt Sparks, Bulman, Del Fatti, K&D, Kramer and so on, need to worry with the latest holster trend like the MTAC???
    In short, no.

    Kydex, or plastic if you will, attracts a different caliber of carrier than someone who is willing to wait for a true handmade leather holster. I have found that cops, always underpaid and trying to stretch a dollar, first time carriers and younger people used to "instant gratification" seem to be the one's that use plastic holsters.

    I realize I'm speaking in generalities, but someone that is really concerned about concealed carry, and takes pride in owning a fine product, like a high end motorcycle, car or nice home is willing to wait for a superior product.

    The Kydex Holsters are popular at the Range, and I even own a couple, but for day to day carry I find leather to be optimal because it is more comfortable against my skin. I've used plastic holsters to, "get me by" until I can receive a good holster from Milt Sparks, Matt Del Fatti and others, but I don't rely on them exclusively.

    With the number of concealed carriers in the population today we have seen the wait times for handmade holsters either get longer or the makers have stopped taking orders in order to catch up to their backlog. Thus kydex fills a "niche" much like a leather or nylon holster from Bianchi or Galco, at least for me.

    Once you find a good Holster you won't go to anything else. I've been carrying so long that I pretty much know what works for me. So I usually only have one or two Holsters per gun. The "pre-made" manufactured stuff is good to give you an idea of what you want in a Holster, but I can't see paying for a Kydex Holster when a handmade leather one isn't that much more. I'm referring to a good Kydex Holster and not the $12 Paddle Holsters I see on the Gun Store shelves.

    The mark of a professional is someone that you can't tell they are armed. This is most likely achieved with a good quality leather holster. Yes, it's costly, to a degree, but the makers have, for the most part, been making holsters long enough that they know what works and what doesn't.

    Matt Del Fatti asked my about my inseam, height, build and what gun I want to carry before I ordered. This is not something you can get from Galco or Bianchi on their off the shelf stuff. I never had Comp-Tac ask me those type of questions either. Milt Sparks asked some questions very similar the first time I ordered from them, to ensure that I would get a holster that would be optimal for me.

    I have not found the Kydex Holsters to be comfortable for daily carry. Also, those Belt Clips are a dead give-away to what you are hiding, much more than a leather snap loop, at least in my expirience.

    So, the long-winded answer to your question is, maybe, but I doubt it. Plastic attracts a different caliber of person than a handmade custom holster.

    Biker

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Kevin's Avatar
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    I like nicely made quality things. I like things that are made for me - something that can be customized or handcrafted.

    This thread is almost silly in its troll-like nature. The dripping sarcasm of "the Great" and "WATCH OUT" are just plain odd. If you like kydex than get it - if you like leather or the finer things pay a little more and wait for the quality.

    Just my opinion

    Kydex is just hard to customize -










  11. #11
    Ex Member Array Silver Wolf's Avatar
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    Leather makers worry?

    As a new holster builder (been at it full time a whopping 2 years), my thought is leather builders don't have anything to worry about.
    I look at kydex as a tool, it is needed in some situations more than others. For instance, when I was active duty, my "field" rig was a either a Safariland kyex thigh rig or a kydex reinforced nylon holster.

    When I served in law enforcement capacities, it was a Safariland triple retention, kydex rig. I used them because I wasn't worried about them getting messed up, scratched, smashed, banged, etc. They were designed to be abused in harsh situations.

    However, when I left work, I put on my Wild Bill oxblood IWB or my Kramer BScab because they were built to me/for me.

    Leather is unique. There are no two pieces alike. Each has it's own personality: some good, some not so good. But it can be made into a thing of beauty. I have talked to quite a few shooters who don't want an off the shelf holster; they want something unique or personal. Builders like Del Fatti, Garrity, Wellsmade, Null, Mernickle, Sparks, Rosen, and many others create a work of art, in my meager opinion. Kydex, thus far, cannot provide that. It's cold, typical but, as I said, useful in many ways. Kydex will not mold to your body like a VMAX or a ISP, though I must admit Comp Tac and others like it, have a good idea combining leather and kydex but it still isn't "all leather".

    I ordered a Comp Tac, yesterday, for my Glock 23. I wanted to see what the hype is all about and I am going to modify it, to suite me.
    I am going to line the back with soft suede and put amber colored shark on the "face" so that it will feel more like mine and not just another thing off of the assembly line. I am sure that will catch on soon as well. I have seen various kydex colors and features but still isn't the same as leather.

    I really don't forsee kydex taking over the industry. Things come in cycles but I think leather will remain dominant because of the comfort features and that feeling of having something unique. I think everyone wants to keep up with the Jones' but they still want to remain an individual while doing it.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Show pics of your 'personalized' MTAC when your done.........that I gotta see!
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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    Ex Member Array Silver Wolf's Avatar
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    gold.........

    Sure thing. I will post the pic.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array lance22's Avatar
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    WARNING: Thread drift.

    Below, two 'personalized' kydex holsters.



    Above: American Alligator on Kydex. Notice that the hide is center cut from the tail, not bottom or side cut. This is my favorite 'dress up' holster. It has a soft feel even though it's tough like body armor.



    Above: Western Diamondback on Kydex. A couple years ago I wanted some exotic holsters so the Diamondback was a 'must have' ... but I like the Gator way better probably because I used to live in FL.

    Moral of the story: It is possible to get a personalized kydex; it's just something that we don't hear much about or see very often. A plus is that the core is kydex so if they get wet it can't get rot from within. The two personalized kydex holsters are from BearClaw Holsters down in MO.

  15. #15
    Member Array TwinCarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exactlymypoint View Post
    I have tried several different holsters and I have to say, the MTAC is the most comfortable. Doesn't seem right, but it is. Plus, with the kydex, it makes reholstering much easier.
    Very well said, which also proves my point on the many folks who feel the same way. So are custom leather holsters slowly becoming a thing of the past???
    SA EMP ~ Sig P232s ~ Walther PP ~ Makarov ~ S&W 442 ~ Ruger LCP
    HK USP Compact ~ HK P2000sk ~ RIA Tactical ~ FN Hi-Power ~ Sig GSR C3

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