I don't get this argument anymore
This is a discussion on I don't get this argument anymore within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yes, but try taking the pistol out of the holster without physically depressing that mechanical device and the firearm cannot be used in exactly the ...
July 16th, 2008 09:52 PM
July 16th, 2008 09:59 PM
QK, we must then agree to disagree. However small the difference is, the thumb safety is a more exaggerated movement than letting your index finger "touch" the release on a Serpa.
1911 users like to flick their safeties on and off as necessary and Glock users like releasing the trigger and having all three safeties back in place.
It all comes down to how you are trained and what you are used too. I very often wanted to get a 1911, but my duty gun is a Glock. I don't want to have two different systems for duty and off-duty. Maybe when I retire I can get one.
Police Defensive Tactics, Firearms, Carbine Rifle and Taser Instructor
NRA Life Member
It is better to have your gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it!
You cannot choose the conditions for a gunfight, so train in all conditions!
July 16th, 2008 10:03 PM
Either adds another action to the draw and fire sequence even if it's not quite the same thing. The last course I was at, there was a large number of students using them. The largest amount of problems were about evenly split between missing the safeties or missing the release on the Serpas. Just about everyone that was equipped with either or both did so at least once, some more often. The problems multiplied when stress was induced. I know it's a training issue but it wasn't just newbies doing it.
July 16th, 2008 10:10 PM
- know the differencemartyr
is a fancy name for crappy fighterYou have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
July 16th, 2008 10:11 PM
Actually we can pretty much agree to agree with nearly all of what you have said.
Now Blackhawk makes a NON Serpa holster with adjustable tension that requires no action at all except for drawing the firearm from the holster.
Now that argument would hold water but, just my personal opinion that a mechanical safety is a mechanical safety and my only attempted rational point being that exactly as natural as it is for you to use your index finger in order to remove your Glock from a SERPA - that is exactly as easy as it is for me to operate my thumb safety as part of my presentation to the intended target.
It is simply a matter of different strokes for different folks.
I don't consider either handgun Glock or 1911 to be inferior or superior only a different format.
And exactly the same way that I really don't like handguns with DA triggers is probably the same as you don't like an added thumb safety.
Neither one is problematic at all as long as the shooter is willing to practice with the firearm that they carry. That is my only point.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
July 17th, 2008 09:33 AM
For those of you who like the idea of a retention holster without the bulk of the serpa, try the Bianchi Cary Loc. It fits as tight as a reg pancake type holster but has the retention device. It's funny those that claim it will slow you down and therefore possibly get you killed have obviously never tried one of these holsters. I was at Bass Pro and they had one on display with a Glock in it ( replica) I strapped the holster on and I worked this thing over for about 30 min. I am sure I looked like a idiot but the last thing I want is anything that requires extra thought or movement on my part, which this holster doesn't!! The release lever is placed in such a natural position you automaticaly release it, however to someone else trying to draw your weapon it becomes very akward. All I can say is try it before you bash it. I just wish they made one for my Sig P232 ( church gun)!!!
When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
July 19th, 2008 10:43 PM
That, is the key.
Originally Posted by QKShooter
"The Way of the warrior is to master the virtue of his weapons." - Miyamoto Musashi, Go Rin No Sho (1645)
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow.
Founder of the BDA Pony Club
July 20th, 2008 01:09 AM
You beat me to it... I'll go get the drinks!
Originally Posted by SIGguy229
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
July 20th, 2008 01:24 AM
The Blackhawk Serpa with its retention makes for a great open carry holster.
"It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith
July 20th, 2008 08:02 AM
At least one defensive school strictly forbids the Serpa holster to be used in their class. Safety issue.
July 20th, 2008 08:05 PM
I don't have a Serpa, but have never heard of a "safety issue" with them. Am I just in the dark? I expect that this is more of a personal bias on the part of the trainer.
Originally Posted by ducati
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
July 20th, 2008 08:17 PM
There was a recall on a few of them at one point.
July 20th, 2008 10:45 PM
This goes back to that to each their own comment. Everybody has different requirements about the way they CC.
July 20th, 2008 11:05 PM
I am surprised that no one has inadvertently pulled the trigger when drawing the gun from a serpa holster. Considering the deleterious effects of survival stress, this is, IMO, an ND waiting to happen. There are several training schools that will not allow this type of holster for that very reason.
As for the thumb safety, even an experienced shooter can 'forget' to disengage the safety when subjected to a mild stress. I've seen it happen over and over in our classes.
July 21st, 2008 01:57 AM
I'm with you Bump... never heard of it being a "safety issue"
for everyone who says it's a safety issue because you may not be able to get your gun out if needed... there are those who say it is a safety issue that can prevent a "gun grab" by the bad guy...
My thinking... regardless which way you fly... It's a Training Issue!
I know... it's a hard concept for me to grasp... but there are a lot of ccw folks who don't like to train. Don't see a need to train and are not gonna train, and that is certainly their prerogative.
Personally, I have holsters with retention devices and holsters without. Not any faster on the draw on those without than those with.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
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