I don't get this argument anymore

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Thread: I don't get this argument anymore

  1. #31
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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    I use the Blackhawk Serpa for CC during the winter months. I don't see any increased chance of an AD/ND with it as compared to any other holster. The release, at least initially forces you to index the weapon, so I think the chances of a ND/AD would be less than most other holsters. OMO.
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    I am surprised that no one has inadvertently pulled the trigger when drawing the gun from a serpa holster. Considering the deleterious effects of survival stress, this is, IMO, an ND waiting to happen. There are several training schools that will not allow this type of holster for that very reason.

    As for the thumb safety, even an experienced shooter can 'forget' to disengage the safety when subjected to a mild stress. I've seen it happen over and over in our classes.

    Randy
    When I draw from my SERPA holster my finger is naturally above the frame resting fully on the slide. Perhaps this is an issue for some, but not for all.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    I am surprised that no one has inadvertently pulled the trigger when drawing the gun from a serpa holster. Considering the deleterious effects of survival stress, this is, IMO, an ND waiting to happen. There are several training schools that will not allow this type of holster for that very reason.

    As for the thumb safety, even an experienced shooter can 'forget' to disengage the safety when subjected to a mild stress. I've seen it happen over and over in our classes.

    Randy

    That is exactly the reason why it has been banned by some training schools(Tactical Response is one). The other reason is due to the locking mechanism becoming inoperable due to debris. From the report I read the individual had to cut the holster off his gun.

    Discounting the failed mechanism, the ND's that can and will occur due to the design of the holster are still related to training. That being said, why waste the money and time learning a new draw stroke when the selection of better holsters is abundant.

    TDC

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    I presume what the OP is trying to say is that most people who choose Glock-like guns do so specifically to avoid the "one extra step" of disengaging a manual safety. Thus, choosing to add a retention holster kind of breaks the logic. In that sense, I agree with the OP's confusion, if that was part of the reason those CCers got the Glock in the first place.

    My own answer is that 7 out of 10 CCW class participants got Glocks because they are so kewl! and got Blackhawk SERPAs for exactly the same reason.
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDC View Post
    ...

    Discounting the failed mechanism, the ND's that can and will occur due to the design of the holster are still related to training. That being said, why waste the money and time learning a new draw stroke when the selection of better holsters is abundant.
    I don't get it, the release is above the trigger. Have you used one?
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  8. #37
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    I have a SERPA...there was very little retraining needed IRT muscle memory to release the firearm from the holster. To me, it is a natural action and vry easy to use.
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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Young View Post
    You don't want to carry a gun with a manual safety, but 7 out of the last 10 Glock CCW I saw at the range were carrying in a Blackhawk Serpa.

    I understand the need for locking a pistol in a holster, especially for those of us taking Carbine courses where we're rolling around on the ground, but for CCW, I see no difference between carrying a cocked and locked 1911 and a Glock owner carrying in a serpa type holster.

    Anyone want to tell me there is a difference?
    Rolling on the ground doesn't only take place in carbine courses....happens on the street too.
    In fact, the Serpa is one of the only OWB Kydex holsters I'd use for carry...but it prints too bad for concealment,IMO.

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    I have a Blackhawk SERPA that I sometimes use for CC in the fall or spring when I'm wearing a semi-long waisted denim jacket. It conceals very nicely with that combination.

    Now however, I use it mostly for IDPA. After about 1/2 hour of practice, I was able to draw and get that first shot off in around 1 1/2 secs; certainly not as fast as the guy in that video but it's automatic for me now.

    On the draw, I like the way my trigger finger is perfectly indexed on the frame when it comes out of the holster.

    I think it's a great piece of equipment.
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    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  11. #40
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    call me crazy but ...
    Okay, you're crazy.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    I don't get it, the release is above the trigger. Have you used one?
    I haven't used one, I've molested a few and I've seen plenty of folks at the range who repeatedly fail to press the pad and unlock the pistol. I don't feel the learning curve is overly difficult with this holster. It does offer room for error resulting in ND's due to poor trigger finger control. The sympathetic response to pressing the pad is carried through to the trigger once the pistol clears the kydex. It has happened. My biggest concern is with the lock mech itself. Why people feel the need to add another level of retention to a CONCEALED carry firearm puzzles me. Part of the reason CCW is so effective is the surprise factor when its employed. Thus negating the need to keep the weapon secure from gun grabs.

    Try drawing your pistol with your non dominant hand with a Serpa or similar locking holster. Try drawing with gloves. What happens if you end up in a roll around fight and the holster is covered in mud, will the lock still release?

    I'll stick to form fit kydex holsters with their positive "click" or tension screw adjustments over more complicated locking mechanisms.

    TDC

  13. #42
    Member Array ofelas's Avatar
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    I tried a Serpa & didn't like it, as I don't like to be forced to index if I don't want to.
    As far as my 1911 or High Power go - my thumb wipes the safety down on it's way to a firing grip, before the muzzle clears leather - absolutely no delay or extra motion.
    To each their own I guess.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    It's a retention holster, not a safety device to prevent the unintended firing of the weapon. I know some folks who recommend the SERPA for duty; no one who recommends it for CC. Pretty self-evident...
    Actually, I carry my G23 in a SERPA always. That means, I open Carry in the SERPA and I Concealed Carry in the SERPA. And I do not have a problem CCing with the SERPA. No problem at all.

    And as for the original poster, I carry all my guns in SERPAs. Some have manual safeties and some do not. The holster has nothing to do with preventing an AD. It has to do with weapon retention and being confident that no matter what I am required to do, run, roll around on the ground with some scum bag, or stand on my head if I had to, the gun will not be leaving the holster without my purposeful draw.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
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    I bought a Blackhawk Serpa for retention in open carry situations...fishing, hiking, etc.

    That way it never flies out of the holster, an event which could lead to trying to catch it with a stick or some body appendage....
    "It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array airslot's Avatar
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    I also CC with a Serpa. M&P45fs, same safeties as a Glock.

    Personally, I don't have a problem with it.
    The situation will NEVER BE THE WAY YOU WANT, it WILL BE THE WAY IT IS. You must be FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO ADAPT and just "DEAL WITH IT".

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