This is a discussion on Blackhawk SERPA within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yep seen that one...
January 13th, 2006 12:02 AM
January 13th, 2006 12:53 PM
I bought a Blackhawk CQC with Serpa retention and right after I ordered it I read that review by Paul Gomez. One thing I will say, Gomez's opinions are valid and he has an excellent background. However.....
I haven't had an issue with the holster since I got and used it at the range. I can see their point about using the tip of your finger to release the weapon, but I haven't done that yet. I also haven't been in a high stress environment to do that yet either. Even though I like the open top holster for my armored car gig, I will probably change once I get some more money to spend on another holster.
Seek safety at the heart of danger.
Live Easy, Die Hard
January 13th, 2006 12:55 PM
Yeah, that's Gomez's post. To me, the essential point was that it might not be the rig you want if you scrabble around on the ground much. Also, unlike any other maker's current offerings, the SERPA requires the "claw" motion with the index finger to release- I can see where that could lead to an "oopsie", in the heat of the moment.
Originally Posted by Blackhawk6
The issue is not so much that the holster has some issues (what new offering dosen't?), but that BH seems to have been perfectly happy to ignore concerns from the field. Not what you expect from a company that says they are for "end-users".
I don't carry for duty, so grab-retention is not my concern: the one thigh holster I own is the Eagle flap style, with thumb break inside, for ready access and security "in the country". Because of the release mechanism, I wouldn't choose the SERPA for my limited needs.
January 13th, 2006 06:15 PM
Ok. I tried grab and go drills with my SERPA holster. I could see in a large panic possibly getting finger in the trigger guard. Valid point made. I can see how someone could do this , especially with a non safety gun.
I will practice keeping my finger on the slide stop during draws till it is second nature. Also, the draw pattern I use , the safety is not off till the gun is almost in the firing position. Perhaps a slightly larger speed bump below the release would help keep fingers in line with the frame too. I may add a strip to try this.
While some LE have AD'ed with this holster, I cannot say if it was operator error of holster error. Perhaps a bit of both. I have heard or seen too many AD incidents that should not of happened by trained LE. Will post back more once I have used this holster and if I am still alive .
January 14th, 2006 01:47 AM
Well, I read the stuff about discharges being blamed on the SERPA retention system and I am not as convinced that the system is bad, as the people who wrote about them.
Until that link was posted, I'd not heard of any such incedences happening. But, they appearantly have.
I am no expert on such matters, but I simply do not agree with their analisis of what actually happened.
Anyone who would "in a panic" or simply "in a hurry", "punch" the button on that holster and then while making the draw, let that finger slide inside the trigger guard and pull the trigger, would very likely have done the same thing, drawing the gun from any other type of holster.
If you think about it, especially when talking about a Glock, we are told to keep the trigger finger out of the guard, and along side the frame, until the target has been aquired. And we are supposed to train ourselves to do just that, practicing it over and over, until it becomes a natural, reflexive action.
For me, that "button" on the Blackhawk holster, serves to re-enforce that "aquired habit." That is exactly why I had no problem getting used to drawing from it, in the first place.
Now, as to the destruction of the holster when the two guys tried to remove a "stuck weapon," that's hardly reason to condem the holster for coming apart. It wasn't as if it had broken during a retention drill. It was, after all to men working in concert against the holster, not one guy breaking the holster while the other was trying to stop him.
As for the gun being stuck in there in the first place, I just don't know. I've no idea if that holster was someone's every-day carry, or if it belonged to a school that used in regularly in retention drills and was subjected to heavy abuse on a regular schedule, or what.
I don't put much stock in the conclusion that the "lock-up" was due to a small piece of gravel in the mechanism, which I suppose they dissected after that rather lively wrestling match. A lot of what is found in a "post mortum exam," can be incidental.
If a lock-up as described is all that easy, I'd have expected to hear of more than just this one. As much as I looked over this and the the Glock Talk forum, I'd have thought it would have be mentioned, somewhere.
Although I've not read everything, every where, that thread was the first I'd seen that talked about these failures. And "many problems" looked like they all appeared right there. Maybe I just missed a lot.
I would say that it is rather clear that their opinion of it wasn't very high.
No, I am not ready to get rid of mine, based on that discussion.
I like mine.
As for an "active retention holster," what I was looking for was one that held the weapon in the holster during every day carry. I don't want the embarrasment of having it skitter across the floor at a resturaunt, and having to post about it, here. (I've read those post.)
Looks to me like most who carry concealed, tend to stay away from snaps and straps to keep the gun where it belongs. They, like I do, depend upon their own actions to keep the weapon out of the BG's hands.
Like I said, I am happy with my Blackhawk holster and I do not agree with the assement of others maintain that it is inherently dangerous. Just about anything can be "what if'ed to death, and it looks to me like a little bit of that, is what happened here.
I've just got to learn to proof-read these long-winded post of mine, before hitting the "submit button." That's the button I have problems with.
I'm done editing now, hope I got it right.
Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.
January 14th, 2006 02:01 AM
Too late now, but maybe I just could have said that "Maybe it isn't perfect, but I still like it."
Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.
January 16th, 2006 02:18 AM
Just noticed this thread and read with interest.
I have been using a Blackhawk Serpa for my Glock Model 23 for just about a year now without a single problem.
I don't carry it every day as I also have other Glocks and wheelguns that I rotate carrying, but I have used the Blackhawk quite a bit on the range with lots of draw and shoot exercises and have not experienced any of the problems mentioned in the articles/reviews linked to in this thread.
The Glocks are tricky, no doubt about it. Just having a trigger safety system makes for more mental drills and practice, practice, practice.
January 16th, 2006 08:19 AM
After a weekend of presentation drills, I have had no problem keeping my finger along the frame. Like Madmike , this is SOP for me and always has been. For me, the SERPA will be a holster I will use alot, I am guessing.
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