Question for EMT's or Doctors/Nurses

This is a discussion on Question for EMT's or Doctors/Nurses within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but I put it here because it is ultimately about carry methods. Background: ...

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Thread: Question for EMT's or Doctors/Nurses

  1. #1
    Member Array SSKC's Avatar
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    Question Question for EMT's or Doctors/Nurses

    I'm not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but I put it here because it is ultimately about carry methods. Background: I was reading a thread on another forum about carry while riding a motorcycle. There was much discussion about carry locations that could cause injury in case of a fall.

    My question is: where is the best place on the body to absorb a blow with minimum chance of injury? From my martial arts experience, I feel that the abdominal area, in the general area of the (technical term here) belly button, seems to be as good a place as any. I base that thought on having taken some pretty good whacks there with no ill effects. However, I realize that the severity of the impact may differ between a kick or a punch and a 60 mph belly flop.

    I realize there is probably no right answer as to the best location to carry if falling off a motorcycle. I'm just wondering if we might be able to locate a place that's "less worse."

    Comments?

    SSKC

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    I would think a pistol holstered in a cross draw position might be the safest for you in an accident. The odds of a blunt force trauma causing damage to any organs should be fairly low. Carrying at the 3:00 or 9:00 position would be another good alternative. You would have to come down hard on your hip to cause much damage.
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

  4. #3
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    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Good Question

    And one that I have no answer to.
    I've not seen this thead question ever posted on our forum.
    Some of our biker dudes will (for sure) chime in.
    Good question.

  5. #4
    Member Array exposurecontrol's Avatar
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    Considering that each and every accident is different in terms of what you hit, how you land, etc, I'm not sure there could be any one place to carry that would necessarly better than another. Let's face it, most fatalities in motorcycle accidents are caused by head injuries.
    God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the weaponry to make the difference.

  6. #5
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    Array P95Carry's Avatar
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    I continue to just have my day to day 3 o'clock - can't really see anywhere that is perfect.

    In a spill stuff is gonna get beat up and I guess at worst my right ilium could get bust worse because of the gun. The risk is there but - I will not travel unarmed so - it is a risk I have to accept.

    I can see some advantage to sho rig, unless of course an impact is focussed higher - in which case rib cage is gonna get hammered badly. Maybe safest is in a tank bag - but then the hassle over retrieval each time you leave bike.

    No ideal way IMO - just pick the risk factor you can be accepting of.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Senior Member Array firefighter4884's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that in an impact with speeds much above 20 mph, any part of your body is going to do well at taking the impact of the road, let alone with the gun holstered on your side.

    Personally, I'd recommend having it mounted somewhere to the bike, or in the saddle bags. I understand that it's not the most attactive option, and most of us are not in favor of off body carry, but it's what's going to hurt the least if you do get in a wreck.

    On the other hand, if you're going fast enough, the impact with the ground is going to do all the damage imaginable. I don't think having the gun will matter at that point (it's not going to hurt you any worse the the black top hitting you at 30 or 40 or 80 mph).

    Just my humble opinion, gathered from picking up a few too many bikers who've dropped their bikes. A doctor might be able to describe it better to you, or pick out a particular spot.

    --Jim

    **Just an EMT who has to go to work in the snow all night tonight. :)
    Firefighter / EMT - Always Ready. Ever Willing.

    ~Never do anything that you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics...~

  8. #7
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    Well, as a former EMT, motorcyclist and current holster designer/maker, I feel uniquely qualified to tell you that I haven't got a clue. All I CAN tell you (as previously mentioned) is that if you have a bike wreck - you've got way bigger problems.
    From my experience, if riding a touring bike or cruiser (like a Harley), then a normal strong side carry has worked well for me (trauma notwithstanding). On a crotch-rocket (because you are leaning forward), a shoulder rig is probably a better choice. Good luck!

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array czman2006's Avatar
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    As a fellow EMT, I agree with FireFighter. No matter where you have it, it is probably going to get ripped off when you hit the road.
    I always advise against any small of back carry, as I have seen people get knocked down by the BG, or just fall, and end up having spinal problems.
    "Let not your heart be troubled." John 14:1

    USN Retired Vietnam/Desert Shield/Desert Storm

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    Only place I would not carry is on my spine. I have seen officers break their back (literally) from falling on their cuff cases in the middle of their back. No pistol or anything else will go back there. When I ride, I wear either strong side, UC Comfort t-shirt holster or a shoulder rig. (Oh I'm an EMT too).
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  11. #10
    Member Array 40FIVER's Avatar
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    I don't mean to cross threads here, but P95CARRY could strap on an ankle hoster. His socks and sandals should offer great protection.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    Funny as it may seem, I wore my 340PD in an ankle rig for a while, till I needed it one day. Was stuck at a stop sign in traffic and a dog attacked. I couldnt get my snubby out of the ankle rig without dumping the scoot and I had a passenger on the back. It was messy (dogs and knives dont make good friends) and I will never carry my primary weapon on my ankle when riding my scoot.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    "Scoot?" All I can picture now is Joe Friday in Ray-bans on a Vespa ... I think I need more coffee.

    Seriously, I gave up riding anything less than four wheels many years ago. My last wreck landed me underneath the bike at the bottom of a 5 foot ditch. I got banged around pretty good but nothing broken, figured it was time to stop pushing my luck.
    Jack

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array czman2006's Avatar
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    I used to have a Kawasaki Concours but stopped riding when I found out I was diabetic. Even a "small" wreck could lead to related health problems I don't want! But to get back on topic, I thought ankle carry might be a sensible idea until I read about the dog attack. Somedays you can't win! Maybe just carry a Kel-Tec P-3AT in your front pocket? Not much firepower but better than nothing, I guess.
    "Let not your heart be troubled." John 14:1

    USN Retired Vietnam/Desert Shield/Desert Storm

  15. #14
    Member Array Kahrma's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how much I would strive for access while on the bike. All zippers should be zipped and all pockets fastened while riding (to keep protective gear and posessions firmly in place). Riding gloves may complicate getting a correct grip on your weapon, and protective clothing will be more difficult to clear than your typical cover garments. If your gun is easily accessible while riding, it's probably gonna go flying if you go down. If you're worried about security at stopsigns, etc as mentioned above (dog attack), maybe a can of OC fastened to your riding jacket or bike would be a good alternative.

    But hey, at least you'll probably have ear and eye protection in place!

    I would advise against ankle carry on a motorcycle. First, the boots you should be wearing might interfere with the rig in the first place. Second, you have poor access on or off the bike. Third, lower leg is one of the most likely places to be injured anyway.

    IWB or OWB would probably be problematic. In a lowside accident, the rider will probably slide along on his/her hip for a time, so 3-4 and 8-9 o'clock are probably out. 10-2 o'clock are probably out just due to comfort reasons, but probably wouldn't be a good choice given a head-on collision (left turning cage, etc.) If you carry at 4-7 o'clock, have a good bud follow you at highway speed to make sure your jacket is still covering your weapon - some ride up, especially when billowed at speed.

    Front or rear pants pocket carry is probably out for comfort reasons. A cargo-style pocket would be an option, but if you take a slide on your side/hip this pocket could be trashed (gun comes out). That said, I'm looking toward a pocket holster so that I can carry the P9 in a side cargo pocket - but then, I ride wearing protective gear over my casual pants.

    A shoulder holster seems to be a good option to me. You should be riding with a jacket, although it would be nice to be able to remove said jacket once you get where you're going. Perhaps a shoulder rig under an overshirt? Won't interfere with your riding position, regardless of what type of mount you choose. The weapon is protected under your riding jacket in case of a getoff. I don't believe I've seen many axillary impacts in moto accidents - lots of legs, ankles, hips, elbows, shoulders, backs, chest and head but rarely rash under the arm or to the lateral ribs.

    Any moto officers here? Maybe they could shed some light.
    Last edited by Kahrma; February 12th, 2006 at 02:44 PM.

  16. #15
    Member Array St Michael's Avatar
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    I'm a doc, I ride, and I carry, but I never thought about this before.

    Primarily you would want to keep the hard outline of the gun from directly striking the body.

    If you are really concerned about it, I think a fanny pack with a heavy double leather or formed plastic liner, to distribute the force of the pistol against the body in case of accident, might be a good idea.

    Think about a standard fanny pack, in a spot easily accessible. Line it on the body side with two layers of heavy leather, or semi-flexible plastic. A piece of firm Kydex could be used, or several layers of white plastic milk carton contact cemented together.

    A strong paddle holster might also fit the bill. I found this quote with a quick google search:

    I am writing to thank you for the products that you produce. In April of this year while working a surveillance detail I was involved in a motorcycle accident on asphalt. I was wearing a Fobus model gl-2 paddle holster. The holster not only stayed in place but also protected my side from the coarse asphalt. My Glock model 27 also was not damaged. I am over six feet tall and weigh 220 pounds and that was a lot of pressure during my 25 yard slide. The holster still works fine and has only some surface scratches. I am a believer in the retention of the holster I have fought with criminals and had my leather paddle holster come loose.

    In conclusion I am convinced the polymer tough holsters by Fobus are the only combat ready holster that will stand up to above and beyond extremes and I have been in law enforcement for over twenty years.

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