need the helping hand of experience
This is a discussion on need the helping hand of experience within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; i know i ask a lot of questions on here. i do so because i am new to ccw life. i figure i can skip ...
March 21st, 2006 11:12 PM
need the helping hand of experience
i know i ask a lot of questions on here. i do so because i am new to ccw life. i figure i can skip most of the agony of figuring it out by getting the input of you all. first i am going to carry iwb, what is the best location for concealment? second i have a slight phobia of having a loaded chamber. has any one else faced this problem and how did you overcome it? i am comfortable with guns i have been around and used them most of my life. i am just new to concealed carry. any other tips and advice for the newbe would also be very useful.
thank you all
March 21st, 2006 11:35 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
Most folks find IWB sits best at about 4 o'clock - depends of course a bit on build and clothing.
The loaded chamber deal - well - you'll not find many here who choose to carry on empty!! Depending on platform might depend also on your feeling of comfort being loaded.
The 1911 is best carried condition 1 - cocked and locked. Remember you have a grip safety as well as thumb - practice with that type of gun holstered but empty around home - but cocked and locked - and so get the confidence level up.
Any DA or DA/SA semi is no prob for chambered round. It might only be something like the Glock where you'd have to be particularly aware of everything being trigger re safety angle.
Familiarize with gun and rig a lot - even with empty gun initially - and remember the four rules of safety too. A gun with an empty chamber can be little better than a door stop in an emergency.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
March 21st, 2006 11:40 PM
As for position, depends on your body. I am weird. I like a "narc style" carry at 1 or 2 o'clock, but most people find their sweet spot at around 4 or 5 o' clock because there's kind of a hollow spot there. I have standardized on carrying at 3:30 or 4:00 because I often have to do other physical activities. It's actually not my favorite draw position, but it's the one that works most of the time.
Experiment and keep experimenting. Get a cheap uncle Mike's IWB holster and unload your gun and keep moving it around. Carry around the house. Ease into it, but mostly just get used to doing it all the time. You will adjust, your muscle memory will begin to develop. One day you'll wake up and feel like you've been doing it for 20 years. That's how I feel all the time and I've only been carrying concealed for about a year.
It's like riding a bicycle... sure it seems intimidating at first, but once you learn it you can't unlearn it.
The loaded chamber phobia can come about as a result of having lot of experience with firearms but being new to the idea of using one defensively, or taking the defensive use of a firearm seriously.
I cut my teeth on double action revolvers and knew that manual of arms well, so the prospect of a loaded chamber never has bothered me becuase I'm used to the idea of a loaded cylinder. As a matter of fact I keep all my "Go to" guns that way. I want "pull trigger go bang".
But there are things I still don't like... I'll tell you a secret, the first few days I had it the XD scared me a little because it essentially rests a cocked striker on a loaded chamber.
Familiarity solved that problem pretty quick though. I still don't like the idea of a pistol that relies on an external safety and I probably never will, but I've gotten used to the idea of an XD or Glock or decocker type pistol resting on a loaded chamber.
If nothing else do this: get a snap cap or two and load your gun with them and then carry that gun around at home every day for a week or two. Just see if it ever accidentally fires. Just you see. I think you'll find out there's nothing to worry about besides keeping your finger off the trigger.
Being a gunowner and being armed are two different things, and it's so good to go from being just the former to also include the latter. This is one of the best things I ever did for myself and I think you'll come to think the same way.
March 21st, 2006 11:51 PM
I can't speak to IWB, I use OWB at 3:30-4. Seams to me 3:30-4 would be comfortable for IWB as well.
At first I was some what uncomfortable with a loaded chamber. But in the event you need your pistol, there may not be time to rack the slide. With time it has become a non issue.
If you don't protect your self, who will?
March 21st, 2006 11:59 PM
thank you for the help. i carry a glock 17 right now but i just bought a kimber compact cdp. i cant pick it up till monday, i live in cali and we have a ten day waiting period. when i get the kimber it will be my summer gun. i also sometimes cary a cz 75b, both the cz and glock are for when i can wear a jacket. as for the loaded chamber the snap cap idea sounds like a good start. any other advice that might help is more than welcome.
March 22nd, 2006 12:45 AM
If you can manage to keep your finger (and anything else) out of the trigger guard until you're ready to shoot, carrying with a round in the chamber won't be a problem.
Invest in a good, sturdy kydex or leather holster, and carry your Glock ready to rock with pride.
March 22nd, 2006 01:04 AM
i have a bianchi soft iwb with thumb break strap and a uncle mikes kydex belt holster. the kydex owb does not conceal very good for me. the iwb works great as long as i am wearing a jacket but has a good size gap where a small branch or friendly poke in the side can slip in and possibly cause a accidental diss . i spend a lot of time in the woods and often find myself stumbling thruogh brush to get to the fishing hole etc...
March 22nd, 2006 02:33 AM
If the holster does not completely cover the trigger guard, it is just plain WRONG. (Talking Glock, here.)
My first holster, a Fobus paddle, did cover the trigger, but I had to pull so hard to get it out of the holster, I usually gave myself a wedgie on every draw. Guess that was better than pulling the gun, holster and all.
Second holster was a Blackhawk carbon fiber CQC SERPA retention holster. Came with both a paddle and a belt attachment. Again, the trigger guard was completely covered. This one make for a very easy draw and having to extend the "trigger finger" on the side of the holster to release the SERPA lock made it very easy to make drawing with the finger along the frame and NOT on the trigger an ingrained, instinctive move. But it didn't conceal as well as I would have liked.
I now carry my G23 in one of K&D Holsters "Laredo Defender" models, on a custom belt also from K&D. This one too covers the trigger guard completely. It was quite stiff to draw from at first, but has smoothed out considerably in just a week or so of use and practice. Even though the draw has gotten easier, it retains the gun very well, as it is molded to a "glove fit." This holster conceals the gun very well, high and tight against the body. I can now wear shirts that would not conceal the other two holsters.
Good holster, good belt, the gun will be securely carried. Properly designed holster, along with proper practice, reduces the chances of a negligent discharge to practically nil.
Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.
March 22nd, 2006 02:44 AM
Forgot to add. . .
I was not completely comfortable with the idea of carrying with one in the tube at first, either. I felt better after reading about the internal mechanics of the Glock.
And I did take the advice offered to me when I was asking, carry with a snap cap round in the chamber for a few days and see if you ever find the trigger has moved to the "fired" position.
Unless you pull it, it just ain't going to happen. Practice drawing and acquiring a target, keeping your trigger finger extended along the frame and NOT inside the trigger guard, until the target is in your sights and you've made a decision to fire.
You do that, while carrying in a holster that covers the trigger guard, you'll stay safe. But do carry around the house with a snap cap in place. It will help you gain confidence. Its also a good way to practice your draw and do some dry fire, as well.
Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.
March 22nd, 2006 02:52 AM
A Glock really should be carried in hard holster with covered trigger-guard, (leather, kydex, or otherwise); but not soft suede or nylon.
As to best position for carry, it is really a matter of personal experimentation. What works best for me (3:30) may not work for you since everyone's physical build, degree of manual dexterity, and comfort level is different. You will also find that the exact same pistol, holster, and concealing top garment will work great with one pair of pants and conceal dramatically differently with another. Since jeans tend to ride lower on the waist than Dockers or dress pants, the ride height of the holster can change as much as an inch; and this can change concealment and draw. A good recommendation for comfort when carrying IWB is to get a few pairs of pants dedicated to concealment that are one-inch waist size larger than you normally wear to leave additional room for the holstered pistol. As to overcoming the fear of a loaded chamber, familiarity and experience with your firearm will alleviate this, but the best advice I can give is to invest in some training. A course at one of the well-known schools is not cheap, but once you have the proper equipment, going to one of the better known shooting schools is some of the best money you will spend having made the decision to carry concealed. If there is not a trainer locally in your area, check the on-line course curriculum. Most of the major schools offer off-site courses at different areas throughout the country during the year. It amazes me the number of guys I see who buy a gun a week and blast away at the local range, not shooting very well, and their basic gun-handling and manipulation skills are awful. If they invested half the money they just spent on guns and ammo on one good training course, their proficiency would increase dramatically; not just in shooting but in safe gun-handling. Many of the better schools are not markmanship courses, but concentrate on safe firearms manipulation, tactics, and self defense.
Good luck with your new-found interest, and please feel free to
e-mail me with any questions.
"He who makes things with his hands is a laborer, he who makes things with his hands and his head is a craftsman, he who makes things with his hands, his head, and his heart is an artist."
March 22nd, 2006 03:29 AM
1952 - 2006
First of all, wishicould, let me say that there is no way you could ask too many questions of our members. That is a big reason this forum exists in the first place. So that we may all learn from one another.
I think you guys have done a great job in laying out the ground work for wishicould.
Euc's and madmike's advice is especially well said.
I have been carrying for almost 12 years now, here in Nevada, and I usually carry OWB in an Andrews Leather Hybrid Saddle holster. However, in the summer, it's difficult to conceal OWB in Las Vegas.
My IWB holster is an Andrews Leather, McDaniel II with the body sheild. They conceal either my full size 1911, or my compact 1911, very well, during the summer, under nothing more than a loose t-shirt.
As has been said, don't skimp your money when it comes to a good belt and holster combination. It's money well spent.
Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences
"I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
March 22nd, 2006 03:53 AM
See BTW at bottom
Same situation here, I've been around firearms since I was a kid but new to defensive and cc.
I was also concerned about cocked and locked and the good people here made the same suggestion as to cocked and locked empty so I've been doing that for a few days to put my mind at ease. I was worried seeing the hammer back on the big 1911 but haven't had any issues yet. I still carry my Mak cocked and locked but de-cocked, it will still fire but has a very heavy Double Action pull on the first round.
I will be continuing to carry the 1911 around cocked and locked, empty for a bit yet until I am totally comfortable with the idea.
BTW My post got buried but I wish to thank everyone who replied for some great and (Bruce) funny advice.
March 22nd, 2006 08:24 AM
I Should Add This
Because it's Important.
You SHOULD know how to run a complete standard "Function Check" on your intended firearm before you carry it cocked & locked with a chambered round.
A properly functioning firearm will be very safe carried cocked, locked, & with a round in the chamber.
Do an initial complete function check on your handgun before you shoot it and before you carry it.
You (obviously) do not have to do a function check every time you holster your firearm BUT, you absolutely need to do a complete and through function check on every firearm when you first get it....in order to be certain that your handgun controls are operating correctly.
March 22nd, 2006 08:33 AM
Function Check Link ~ Do It!
March 22nd, 2006 06:14 PM
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