No serpa holsters allowed

This is a discussion on No serpa holsters allowed within the Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; hey guys and gals, just wanted to share something with you and ask if any have heard of this before. Well I was looking at ...

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Thread: No serpa holsters allowed

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
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    No serpa holsters allowed

    hey guys and gals, just wanted to share something with you and ask if any have heard of this before.

    Well I was looking at taking some more advance fighting pistol and force on force courses when I get home, just to stay sharp ya know.

    well anyway they give a list of needed gear and so forth, then it says no serpa holsters this is from their website, what yalls take on this?

    "Why no Serpa holsters?
    An answer from our friend Paul Gomez: Begin Quote “Over the last year, I have developed some serious concerns with the Blackhawk Serpa Active Retention holster design. Various persons have brought these concerns to the attention of Blackhawk on several occasions and Blackhawk has chosen to ignore these very real issues.

    The ‘Serpa Active Retention’ design consists of a plastic L-shaped component which functions as the release button [from the outside of the holster] and as the lock [which engages inside the trigger guard]. The short leg of the L-shaped lever pivots inward [toward the pistol], while the locking tab pivots outward to release the pistol from the holster.

    According to the Blackhawk website, ”The release is made using your normal drawing motion, with the trigger finger beside the holster body. … As your trigger finger naturally comes to rest on the SERPA lock’s release mechanism, simply push the mechanism as you draw the weapon and it releases the gun for a smooth, fast draw.”

    While Blackhawk may intend for the end-user to apply inboard pressure with the flat of the index finger, under stress, shooters tend to push the button with the tip of their index finger. After all, this is the manner in which most people have the most repetitions pushing buttons such as keys on a keypad or phone or ringing doorbells. When the finger pushes in on the release button and the user initiates the upward motion of the draw stroke, the finger tends to stay in motion and as the trigger guard clears the holster, the finger enters the trigger guard and contacts the trigger, with possibly tragic results.

    I am aware of two instances where trained personnel have shot themselves using this holster in conjunction with Glock pistols. In August of 2004, a situation occurred with a live weapon that resulted in the shooter losing a 10cm piece of her femur. The other occurred with nonlethal training ammunitions in a force-on-force event in April of 2005. The impact of the NLTA was in the same area as the actual gunshot wound previously mentioned."

    Now I have used a serpa holster and have never shot myself!!!
    Im not so sure about going to this course or not now. They recomend a drop leg or a belt slide holster. Maybe they are just looking out for their client, but like I said, I have never heard of this..

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  3. #2
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    Ok, I understand the design and I also understand the potential. Since all guns live in a world of Murphy's Law, I don't believe I would ever want one. Besides, I'm not that coordinated. ~
    Regards,
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  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    Sounds like a training issue more then anything else, but thats my opinion. Its like going from a American style mag release to a european style grip heel mag release. I know a guy that did the same thing drawing from a Bianchi leather holster, lost one of his toes.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

  5. #4
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    Kelly II...

    There is one other issue I have heard regarding the Serpa, and I have no validation on this, but I read somewhere where there has been one or two incidents where very small pebbles have gotten wedged in the release mechanism while shooters were doing prone drills and such on a gravel covered "A Range" and it jammed the release mechanism preventing the gun from being released at all until the gun/holster had been removed from the shooters belt, very close inspection to find the problem and digging out the offending pebble with a pocket knife.

    Again, while I only read the notice with no posted pictures, I have no way of verifying the validity of the report.

    One can only assume how this can be a deadly situation although, to date I've heard of no reports of this happening over in the "sand box" where I understand the holster is fairly popular, and of course would be a prime environment for that particular malfunction to occur.

    I too have a Serpa holster for my Glock-23 and like it just fine. It is very secure and like you, I've never shot myself using it.

    These issues does give one pause... but I'm also from Missouri... The "Show Me" State.
    -Bark'n
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    Senior Member Array Knuckledrager's Avatar
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    I have posted here before about the serpa lock. I have gone as far as prohibiting them from being used at my job! My concerns are based on 2 factors. First, the mechanical failure issue caused by debris in the locking mechanism. Second, and far more important, the design of the lock requires an absolute dead on positioning of the trigger finger. I have seen a wide variety of skill levels miss the lock under stress (timed shooting, physical exertion etc) on a flat range with a static shooter engaging a static target in well lit conditions. When the shooter becomes dynamic and engages from a non traditional position, the fumbled releases increase dramatically. I have not seen issues, under these conditions with traditional thumb breaks, Safariland SLS, Safariland SS III and even the Safariland SLS/ALS combo. I think the have it all over the serpa.
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    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Sorry to hijack , but if people are so against can someone suggest a holster that can rotate to facilitate the ability to crossdraw while driving for a H&K P2000? (that's a long sentence)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Kelly II... to date I've heard of no reports of this happening over in the "sand box" where I understand the holster is fairly popular, and of course would be a prime environment for that particular malfunction to occur.[/B]
    Might be because a lot of Serpa users over there holster M9s, which have a traditional DA action. Long, deliberate trigger pull, longer and with higher force for initial DA shot than the Glock.

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    Member Array redneckrambo's Avatar
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    I am a reserve posse deputy for a small department in Colorado. Std dept issue is glock22 or 23 and blackhawk serpa holster. Haven't heard of anyone here shooting themselves yet. I think it's mostly a training issue. Practice,practice, practice!!!
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Might be because a lot of Serpa users over there holster M9s, which have a traditional DA action. Long, deliberate trigger pull, longer and with higher force for initial DA shot than the Glock.
    I was referring to sand and gravel getting caught underneath the release mechanism causing the weapon to be "locked" inside the holster, unable to remove the gun at all.

    I wasn't referring to the Original Post which referred to the negligent discharges from the index finger slipping into trigger guard and firing the gun as you made your draw and cleared the holster.

    Totally different holster problem I was referring to.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    The only moving parts in my holsters are the guns being drawn.
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    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuban11182 View Post
    Sorry to hijack , but if people are so against can someone suggest a holster that can rotate to facilitate the ability to crossdraw while driving for a H&K P2000? (that's a long sentence)
    Would one of these work for you? BTW, I believe the photo is wrong as the item is listed as a belt holster, not a paddle holster but if you're interested, you may want to check for sure.

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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    That sounds like a training and focus issue to me; nothing that additional training and presence of mind would take care of.....

    After all, if LEO personnel can learn to use this type of holster safely, then so can civilians. As a sidenote, if my home state of Texas ever adopted an open carry law I would use some type of retention holster like a SERPA for retention and safety reasons....

    Just my .02c
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  14. #13
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    I,ve owned one for my G26 and I love it.
    It works well for me and thats all I need to know.
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    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
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    I suppose the danger could be eliminated by carrying without one in the pipe....

    The folks I know that use this holster have a need for retention. In my opinion, they benefit greatly from the retention capability of the holster and endure little of the risk described by the OP. If folks learn to use the equipment properly, it won't bit 'em!
    "It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
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    I also thought it was a TRAINING ISSUE, I mean I have crawled, layed down and drug myself and my serpa holster throug sand, dirt and everything else and have yet to have a my holster malfunction. I dont know, maybe I have just been lucky. But after what I have put mine through, I can tell you that I stand behind and have confidence in my serpa...

    Not to mention, I have never had a ND, practice and practice some more. Even when were not out on a mission I practice drawing my weapon from my holster. I think one needs to do this on a regular basis, even if their holster is not a serpa....

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