Front Sight Firearms Training In Nevada - Page 3

Front Sight Firearms Training In Nevada

This is a discussion on Front Sight Firearms Training In Nevada within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by zacii I concur with hayzor. The Front Sight training is far and above the standard 8hr AZ CCW class. I would not ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    I concur with hayzor. The Front Sight training is far and above the standard 8hr AZ CCW class.
    I would not consider this high praise.

    I've got no problem with them instilling the habit of a slow, deliberate reholster. That's where accidents happen. No reason to slam it in too fast. But, if that's not your style, then that's fine.

    I've just returned from my second trip to Front Sight. I learned a little more this time. Since I was a return student, I didn't have to attend the lectures and got some 1 on 1 time with the range instructors. It was very helpful.

    In my critique notes, at the end of the class, I wrote that they didn't stress 'focus on the front sight' enough! Maybe super-duper advanced shooters don't need to be reminded, but I felt like I needed to hear it.

    Cut 'em some slack, they're dealing with a variety of shooters and their experience.
    What are your other training experiences? Is Front Sight your only training, or do you have another experience you can compare Front Sight to?


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    You must be quite the pistolero. Comparing the course to basic 8 hr CCW stuff is laughable. My 8 hr AZ ccw class consisted of 10 minutes on the range and 10 shots fired with no other gun handling skills or training. Your comments about disregarding safety advise is telling of your general attitude, so please inform us of your regular shooting locations so I can steer clear of them. Good luck with your shooting and attitude.
    While you're at it, tell us a little about your other training experiences. Have you been to weapons instruction outside of the 8 hr CCW course and Front Sight?

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    I would not consider this high praise.



    What are your other training experiences? Is Front Sight your only training, or do you have another experience you can compare Front Sight to?
    I'm only a novice. I've only trained at Front Sight. Mostly because it's relatively close to where I live.

    People with more rounded training experiences are bound to have very different views than mine, I was just offering my opinion and comparing it to my local AZ CCW class.

    That said, I know that I have to attend a Gunsite training course. Just have to come up with a financial plan that will allow it.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  4. #34
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    As a general rule most one or two day firearms training is more than most get with a CCW class. That comment is only my observation and experience from my states class and what has been posted on the sight as the state requirements.
    From what I have seen Front Sight offers courses to people that would otherwise not be obtainable. Shooting an UZI or M-16 for some would probably never be obtainable without this place. When you do not have a lot of firearms training any training can be good, if you seperate the wheat from the chaff so to speak, and a lot of the courses seem high speed, low drag to some which is a great motivator and keeps people shooting. But his claim of shoot better than a SWAT Cop or Navy SEAL from his 4 day pistol class, dont think so.
    I just have a problem with the founders business practices, his advertising techniques. This guy is/was a chiropractor and has never, to mine or anyone elses knowledge, been involved in a lethal force encounter or incident and is not an LEO. His trainers may be great it is him that I have the problem with.
    Anyways go have fun learn something and judge for yourself. And yes as was mentioned the fraud and RICO violations were involving the higher end memberships but remember it is the $100, $500 memberships that keep this guy going.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  5. #35
    Member Array Spionen's Avatar
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    I attended the 4 day handgun course last weekend and have nothing but good to say about the facility and the instructors. They gave my wife a lot of 1:1 time on the range and helped boost her confidence which was my major goal in attending.

    Stay at the Best Western in Pahrump (tell them you are a FS student and you'll get a discount), take your own factory loaded ammo, drink lots of water and have a great time.

    I'll go back at least yearly.
    Semper Paratus (Always Ready)


  6. #36
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    While you're at it, tell us a little about your other training experiences. Have you been to weapons instruction outside of the 8 hr CCW course and Front Sight?
    I didnít claim to be a training expert or even to have any other formal training outside of the AZ CCW & Front Site. I pointed out that there is a very large difference between the AZ CCW course and Front Site 2 day course.

    If there is an AZ CCW course that instructs in presentation from a holster, shooting controlled pairs, follow up shots, clearing malfunctions, etc, then please let me know which one it is. Iíll certainly recommend it to friends.
    As stated before, in my CCW course, I shot a total of 10 rounds at 2 distances, for a total range time of 10 minutes. There was no other talk of gun handling other than the standard 4 firearm rules, which were discussed in the classroom. The remaining 7.5 hrs were lectures by 2 lawyers on the legalities of appropriate/deadly use of force and the application of AZ laws. BTW, this course was at Scottsdale Gun Club, which seems to have a good reputation in this area.
    The only similarities between the 2 courses were the lectures. Front Site had a couple of lectures re. appropriate use of deadly force, what to do after a SD shooting, etc.

    I think that comparing the Front Site 2 day course to a CCW course is an extremely inaccurate and misleading comparison.

    Note: I am not affiliated w/ SCG or FrontSite in any way, other than taking a course at each facility.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

  7. #37
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    I'm not comparing Front Sight to CCW, either.

    I'm just saying that the ONLY people I've spoken to with a positive opinion of Front Sight, are those who've never trained anywhere else.

    There is a metric ton of trainers and training out there. If you can get FS training free or next to free and avoid the sales pitch, good on you.

    I'm proposing that there is better instruction available elsewhere. For real similar money, loss-leading coupons and free gun gimmicks aside.

    I'm also suggesting that most other places have better business ethics/practices.

  8. #38
    New Member Array wesIII's Avatar
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    Front Sight Training

    This thread seems to have gotten a little emotional. Here is my $.02 - I took the 2 day defensive handgun class last year in May and liked it. I was treated with respect and achieved some skill at presenting my gun from my holster. This was my first non-CCW class. Years ago I took a 2 day CCW class in Colorado and have taken the 2 day Arizona CCW class twice (I let my license expire when it was still required). The Front Sight class was by far more advanced than either of those classes. I considered the life membership, but it was too expensive for me and I was able to purchase a couple certificates for less money. So, I am signed up for the 2 day handgun skill builder class the end of this month. I have done some research on the legal action at Front Sight and wish things were different, but as long as they are in business and treat me right when Iím there, I will continue to take their classes. Maybe next year Iíll be able to try one of the other schools. Right now the price is right at Front Sight and I am looking forward to my class.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spionen View Post
    I attended the 4 day handgun course last weekend and have nothing but good to say about the facility and the instructors. They gave my wife a lot of 1:1 time on the range and helped boost her confidence which was my major goal in attending.
    Stay at the Best Western in Pahrump (tell them you are a FS student and you'll get a discount), take your own factory loaded ammo, drink lots of water and have a great time.
    I'll go back at least yearly.
    We attended the 4-day handgun in May and Oct 2011. Both my wife and I had excellent experiences and like Spionen, we'll be going back annually. From Seattle the trip costs about $600 per person the way we travel, but we get a chance to warm up and have some serious fun so it's all good.

    I can totally related to watching my wife learn the skills she needs to defend herself against violent crime and develop a ton of confidence in the process. She is VERY strong willed so me teaching her is not an option...especially where bullets are involved. I learned way more than I expected too.

    My Review of Frontsight Firearms Training:
    In addition to lots of shooting and very professional safe instruction, they provide in depth training about when and why to shoot or not to shoot someone who is threatening you, your family or an innocent. You'll learn how to clear your house deliver rounds accurately under stress. You will go home with techniques to continue to practice and refine your skills so they are there when you need them. The instructors are VERY careful, patient, kind, funny and helpful. There are no "drill sergeants" at Front Sight.

    There were 6-8 current/former cops or current/former military in our June class of 31 students. They were all completely impressed by the Front Sight training method. In addition to the experienced people there were families with sons and daughters from all walks of life.

    In October we attended with Will, a 25 year Marine. He trains marksmen and competitive shooting teams in the service. He's been deployed to Iraq 2X and Afghanistan 1x I think. He has attended the FBI training in VA as well as a few other private schools. On day 4 I grilled him to get his honest evaluation. He said it was easily some of the best training for beginners he has seen. He was thinking about buying classes for his military instructors so they could see how Frontsight does the the shooter/coach training method. Will's feedback echoed the comments of the dozen or so active and former cops and another dozen current and former military with whom I've had the opportunity to train.

    If you need an excuse to go to Las Vegas, this is it.
    You need to pay attention to the weather in Pahrump when you schedule.
    While training in the cold and blistering heat may be good "extreme" training, we're sticking with Apr, May, Sep, Oct.
    ------------------
    If you're considering attending there is always some sort of deal so you don't have to pay retail price.
    If you contact a member, they should be able to hook you up with whatever the latest "super amazing" deal is. Like most people, I hate the spam but I endure it so I can get the cool deals. I am buying up extra memberships for my family and friends before they are all gone at the of 2011. Other members are doing the same thing.
    ------------------
    There are lots of great schools out there. If I didn't have a lifetime membership I would be going to someplace closer to Seattle....but no charge for classes makes the trip to a warm place an easy sell with my wife. For me it's a wash with the expense of other training in my area.
    Last edited by sbmitt; December 28th, 2011 at 01:38 AM.

  10. #40
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    In October we attended with Will, a 25 year Marine. He trains marksmen and competitive shooting teams in the service. He's been deployed to Iraq 2X and Afghanistan 1x I think. He has attended the FBI training in VA as well as a few other private schools. On day 4 I grilled him to get his honest evaluation. He said it was easily some of the best training he has seen and he was planning on buying classes for his military instructors so they could see how Frontsight does their training. Will's feedback echoed the comments of the dozen or so active and former cops and another dozen current and former military with whom I've had the opportunity to train.

    sbmitt. I don't know you and you are new to the site but I am going to have to raise the BS flag on this one. If I am not mistaken this is part of a front sight ad that I have seen before but anyways. A Marine who teaches others that means he is a competitive shooter himself and training at front sight would be at a kindergarden level at best as he has been shooting for years and has had to compete for a spot on the shooting teams or a spot as a Marksmanship Instructor.
    Nothing in the front sight teaching methods comes close to the FBI Academy nor Marine Corps marksmanship training in anyway shape or form. I am glad you had a good class but front sight training is basic training targeted at the masses.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  11. #41
    New Member Array sbmitt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    I am going to have to raise the BS flag on this one. If I am not mistaken this is part of a front sight ad that I have seen before but anyways. A Marine who teaches others that means he is a competitive shooter himself and training at front sight would be at a kindergarden level at best as he has been shooting for years and has had to compete for a spot on the shooting teams or a spot as a Marksmanship Instructor.
    This is not an "ad" and I don't work for FS or stand to profit by telling people about our experience.

    Will is a Marksmanship Instructor. I didn't say he was "challenged" or necessarily learned anything he had not learned elsewhere. In fact he was fairly bored the first couple days while the rest of us nailed down the fundamentals of how not to shoot ourselves and how to get rounds in the right place in a hurry.

    He was commenting on the type of training for relatively new shooters.
    Will said, "I firmly believe you don't really learn something unless you teach it. In the service, you have to have a special MOS to be able to be a line coach." He was commenting on the shooter/coach method FS uses which he believes is the best way to do it.

    He explained that basic qualification for being issued a handgun in the Marines is 80 rounds. (I think that's what he said.) As I understood it, there is no intensive training, drawing from the holster, etc. The qualification kinda dates back to the days when everyone handled guns and knew how to shoot. However, most of his Marines have very little experience with anything beyond X-box. Things like negligent discharge, poor muzzle control and other rule violations are common.

    There was quite a bit in the discussion, but he had nothing bad to say about Frontsight or their methods.
    I apologize for not being more clear. I edited my post to try to clarify this.
    Have you attended Frontsight during the last 3 years?
    Is this reasonably consistent with your experience?

  12. #42
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    sbmitt. This makes a little more sense now. Handguns in the military in general are a secondary weapons system, except for specific MOS's, and are not trained on that much.

    I understand now what you are saying in reference to the method of instruction used yes it is very effective but remember the military teaches to units, the more complex the subject or school the lower student to teacher ratio that you have which works well for them.

    I have never attended front sight nor can I. People that speak out against Dr. Pizza Guy are banned from attending front sight. He and I had a heated debate awhile back in reference to him using the video of a young police officer being shot to death to further his own business without regard for the legal implications that a police officer must use before using deadly force. He used the video and then in the next weeks blog crawfished and stated that he was not responsible for it's use and so on. I also questioned him in regards to the Ponzi scheme he was running in regards to land deals, housing and so on for the front sight playground. He basically sold houses and plots that were to be built that never were nor had any intention of being built he therefore had to refund all monies involved then did not do it but that is another matter.

    So, I am banned from FrontSight! - Glock Talk

    I have never said anything bad about his instructors they may be top notch but there are simply other schools that I would attend given the choice.

    Again I am glad you enjoyed yourself and learned something that is the ultimate goal in training. I personally will not go there simply because of his practices.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #43
    New Member Array sbmitt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    I have never attended front sight nor can I. People that speak out against Dr. Pizza Guy are banned from attending front sight. He and I had a heated debate awhile back in reference to him using the video of a young police officer being shot to death to further his own business without regard for the legal implications that a police officer must use before using deadly force. He basically sold houses and plots that were to be built that never were nor had any intention of being built he therefore had to refund all monies involved then did not do it but that is another matter.
    I share your lack of appreciation for the marketing machine he runs. I don't carry any water for that part of their business. I think most of their legal issues and bad historical press were related to the residential development that didn't happen but as far as I know that's pretty much been resolved. I can also see why my post punched your buttons. I've been focused on my experience and that of those around me and our interactions with that staff. So far so good. I've got my money's worth the first time I want, but I would not have been one of the folks investing $2K+ per membership.

  14. #44
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    I'd rather chew glass than give Iggy Pizza a dime.

    Anyone who uses the video taped death of a cop to market their classes is a world class dirtbag. Especially the kind of fast-food, mediocre training that FS espouses.

    While the video might be useful as a training aid, if you're using a "snuff" film to market your training, then decent people should be appalled.

    The NRA apparently agreed and dropped him as an advertiser in their magazines.

  15. #45
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    sbmitt and that is what matters. If you and others went to the class and learned "good things" that is what matters most. Always remember to seperate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Whenever an instructor says my way is the only way you will ever need watch out, he is selling something you don't want to buy.

    Damn GutshotJohn tell us how you really feel. The video itself can and should be used for "Training" don't have an issue with that. The context in which he used it was just plain wrong and I told him so. He posted the next week all the people supporting him but mine was left out, imagine that.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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