April 17th, 2010 11:20 PM
Front Sight Firearms Training In Nevada
Me and my father are taking the 4 day defensive firearm class at the end of the month. Has anyone else ever been there? Was there anything that you really like or didnt like thati shold be aware of?
April 17th, 2010 11:26 PM
I've been there. Highly recommend it
I would seriously recommend getting electronic ear protection. I had a hard time hearing the range commands, then my cousin let me borrow his. Quite a difference!
There wasn't really anything that I didn't like. They have plenty of water and Gatorade, so no need to pack anything like that.
Do a search, you'll find lots of informative reviews on the 4 day class.
Trust in God and keep your powder dry
"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source
April 17th, 2010 11:59 PM
I've been there several times (4-day Defensive Handgun twice, 4-day Practical Rifle). It is great training - both the classroom work and range time. Be prepared for long, pretty intense days (10 hour days with a 13 hour day for the night shoot).
I agree with the electronic ear protection. One thing they don't tell you is that it is best to wear a shirt without a collar. There is a lot of hot brass flying and a collar (or loose fitting neck) can allow the brass to get trapped against your skin. Bring at least 3 or 4 extra mags, the more the better. Keep one empty so you don't have to unload one when they do emergency reload drills.
Have fun. My wife and I are scheduled to take the handgun class again on May 7.
April 18th, 2010 01:10 AM
I just got back from the four day defensive handgun class. I agree on the electronic ear protection. In hindsight I wish I would have had a kydex holster, like a bladetech , uncle mikes or Fobus for smoother presentations. A dual mag pouch is a must. 4 magazines would be good, 3 if high capacity. Take concealment clothing that you would typically wear. And before you go, practice dry , practice malfunction clearing, I just think getting yourself prepped beforehand with dry practice drills will really be beneficial to one's learning curve.
I also went with my 78 year old father. It was not easy, but an adventure I won't ever forget. The training was excellent. Have fun! Wear sunscreen ..lol
April 18th, 2010 02:13 PM
Yeah, its hotter where i live in Az then out there past Vegas. They are bout 12ish+ degrees cooler then here so im always ready for that. I will be wearing my duty rig from my last job so i have everything already mounted on that. Me and Dad have been practicing alot and trying our had at the "draw and shoot two rounds at center mass all within 1.5 seconds" thing they do so we'll see how i goes. Either way, im excited. Ive been wanting to go for a few years now and Daddy is getting rusty in his older age and not training like he used to, so it will be well served im sure. Cant wait, this is the longest few weeks ever! lol
April 20th, 2010 12:59 PM
Any training is good training as long as you take what you can use and store the rest in the back part of your brain. I have never been to front sight and probably wont. His instructors seem competent but do not buy into the membership programs no matter how appealing they may be. The founder of front sight was indicted for fraud and violations of the RICO statutes in regards to his membership packages. He was ordered to pay restitution in the hundreds of thousands of dollars which he defaulted on and front sight went into receivership. After renegotiating the settlement it was allowed to stay open and returned to his control. Enjoy the shooting portions just stay away from the membership part.
April 20th, 2010 01:03 PM
I've heard Front Sight is great, but man, that is the cheesiest website EVER. After looking at the website I have to say I'm not surprised about the allegations tacman made, the website was that cheesy. All that said, I'd go if I could scrape up the cash and talk the wife into it.
April 20th, 2010 02:12 PM
I think this is when it all started. There are updates on the newpapers website.
Pahrump Valley Times - Nye County's Largest Newspaper Circulation
November 25, 2005
Others come forward in Front Sight litigation
By GINA B. GOOD
Editor's note: This is the second installment of our ongoing series on Front Sight. The owners of the firearms training facility and residential subdivision are the targets of a class-action lawsuit.
A home on the range in an upscale resort sounds good.
For firearms enthusiasts offered a home-site complete with a state-of-the-art shooting facility, it sounds even better.
Add a lifetime of professional instruction - with free shooting, hunting and martial arts classes - and that's a dream come true.
But like the old adage says, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. A class action lawsuit filed against Front Sight Nov. 7 alleges that the organization used false and misleading statements in order to sell memberships.
From Front Sight's earliest days in 1998, the organization's president, former chiropractor Dr. Ignatius Piazza, sold firearms training and the prospect of living in a gated community on the grounds of Front Sight, which he deemed would become "The safest community in America."
The unique concept of a community based on firearms training keeps Front Sight in the news.
In fact, Piazza's mastery of marketing has netted worldwide recognition for Front Sight with television coverage, as well as newspaper and magazine articles appearing throughout the U.S. and Europe.
Piazza's offer to train commercial pilots after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in 2001 resulted in mentions in the Washington Post, World Net Daily and on CNN.
While students grumble about the seemingly endless mailings and special offers generated from Front Sight, few, if any, question the validity of the facility's firearms training.
However, Piazza's frequent mailer program could lead to his downfall, according to litigants. He has reportedly made a lot of promises in writing.
In an Associated Press article dated April 26, 1999 reporter Angie Wagner wrote: '"Piazza expects Front Sight's first phase completed by year's end. New residents will be welcome by the end of 2000, he says."'
To date, only a security guard and a firearms instructor live on-site, in recreational vehicles.
In July 2002, a mailer sent to students from Front Sight read, "Electricity and water supply was completed some time ago, so we are now beginning the development of all underground utilities and sewer to be completed on phase one of the facility before the fall courses."
The flyer further stated: "Yes, this means real bathrooms - about 20 separate, multi stall bathroom buildings!"
Three years after receiving that notification, students in 2005 are still using portable toilets supplied and serviced by Joe's Sanitation of Pahrump. They are kept clean and well equipped, but they are a far cry from the promised "real bathrooms."
Pahrump Sanitation, the company originally supplying portable toilets to the firing ranges, removed its equipment after Front Sight fell substantially behind in payments for rental and servicing fees.
With hundreds of students attending classes on a weekly basis, Pahrump Sanitation owner Phil Hibdon had purchased a number of new portable toilets to place near the ranges and classroom areas. The facility required more than 20 units on a permanent basis.
"I did a lot of things for them," Hibdon said. "It's a long story. They owed me $20,000 and after about six months I got fed up with them."
Eventually, Hibdon prevailed and was paid. "I thought I better get out while I was ahead," he said, explaining why he removed his equipment.
Four former Front Sight construction workers who live in Pahrump asked not to be identified at this time; however, they say it is true the water and sewer lines were trenched and pipes were installed. However, they maintain Piazza could not - or would not - come up with the funds to finish either job.
One of the men also revealed another obstacle that must be addressed before flush toilets could be installed. An engineering soil report found the site slated for a septic tank and leach field was not acceptable due to tough ground conditions.
The former employees further allege waterlines underneath phase one have never been connected to the facility's well. To this day, water coolers used on the ranges during classes are filled from a water hose connected to the well. It is the same water used to fill the facility's water truck for dust suppression.
The men claimed no sand or other bedding material was placed under the water or sewer pipes and allege the fire hydrant in front of the impressive 8,300 square foot classroom has never been hooked up to the well.
The State Fire Marshal's Office has not yet commented on the fire hydrant, but a spokesman did say the classroom - which is currently in use - has not been issued a certificate of occupancy.
The flyer was correct in saying electricity had been extended to the facility. The construction office and classroom, as well as most ranges have power, although the outdoor lighting for night classes is run on gas-powered generators.
In addition to announcing electricity, water and real bathrooms, the July 11, 2002 mailing from Piazza to members announced the beginning of construction of phase two and development of roads into phase three, where home parcels had been assigned to platinum members.
Pete Wallace of Pahrump, a former employee who ran the bulldozer and grader on the construction crew, said there is only one roughly graded road into the home sites.
More than three years ago, KLAS TV in Las Vegas aired a two-part feature on Front Sight. The Eye Witness news team reported: "...in two to three years, this will be home to hundreds. There will be homes, a shopping center, even a K through 12 school."
There is no sign of water being brought into phase three. No lots are graded. Former staff members, at least one of whom is part of the class represented in the federal lawsuit, say a wastewater treatment plant must be built, yet they wonder if talks have been initiated with the Public Utilities Commission.
Adding to the confusion, information on Front Sight's Web site this week includes a statement beginning with these words: "When Phase 1 is completed later this year ..."
Editor's note: The class action lawsuit filed against Front Sight Firearms can be accessed online at frontsightlitigation.com.
For comment or questions, please e-mail firstname.lastname@example.org
April 20th, 2010 03:13 PM
You don't have to agree with Piazza or condone his practices to take advantage of the great firearms training. Regarding the memberships, I debated long and hard but selfishly chose to make the training readily available to my wife and I and bought a membership for both of us. The only cost effective way to attend more than your first class is to buy a membership. I think all of the issues with Piazza were related to development property sales and not the lifetime class memberships.
When we purchased the memberships we got 8 certificates to do with as we wanted (many put them on eBay which is where the $100 certificates come from). However, we used them to get our friends some good training. In fact, we have taken a couple of our liberal anti-gun friends and they loved it. Even our gun friends are now much better trained.
Also, they typically have several hundred people there 3 times a month for the handgun training class which I think is a very good thing.
April 20th, 2010 10:52 PM
Great course and a good starting point!
The Best Western is the place to stay. They'll have a lunch ready for you each day if you let them know when you check in and it's cheap. Free breakfast too!
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
April 20th, 2010 11:32 PM
Glad to hear about the training. I will say this again just to be clear any training is good. If you can go somewhere and shoot and learn that is the most important thing. My problem is with the founder and his business practices. Stealing is stealing no matter how much sugar you put on top of it. Keep in mind some of these packages he offers are over $100,000 dollars that is over and beyond firearms training. Go and enjoy the classes just watch yourself before you sign on the dotted line for something.
Last edited by tacman605; April 20th, 2010 at 11:34 PM.
April 22nd, 2010 05:34 AM
While looking at the Glock Talk site there was a post from a member there who attended a course two years ago. He applied to attend a second course this year and was sent a letter stating he had been banned from attending front sight courses because he posted negative feedback about the front sight membership sales pitch during the training.
If this is the case I assuming I am banned also if I ever wanted to attend a course. Oh well life is now over as I know it.
This is pretty funny. I attended FS two years ago and took a 4-day Defensive Handgun course. I was rather impressed by training but no so impressed by their marketing shpiel and their membership system. But more on that later.
I didn't really consider going back, but there is a 4-Day rifle class being put on at the end of this month and it's meant to benefit a good cause, so I figured I'd attend. I was looking forward to meeting and shooting with fellow Calgunners. More on this class:
So I printed out FS's application, filled it out and faxed it in. Here's the reply I got back:
Thank you for submitting an application to Front Sight to attend the training under the Basich Group Rifle class 09/25/2009
Unfortunately we are not able to provide you training at Front Sight at this time or in the future and we have canceled your enrollment into this course on 09/25/2009.
This cancelation and ban from attending training at Front Sight stems from your post on internet chat boards about Front Sight.
We have not charged your credit card for the criminal background check.
Front Sight Firearms Training Inst.
P.O. Box 2619
Aptos Ca. 95001
At first I wasn't even sure what he was talking about, so I e-mailed him back and then he made a reference that made me remember posting here on GT after initially attending their class.
I guess my e-mail address is similar enough to my handle.
Seriously, what kind of pathetic company instead of concentrating on running their business would scour the internet to find people that had less than stellar things to say about them? What's even funnier is that everything I predicted two years ago is coming to fruition. FS even briefly went into recievership not that long ago. The prices of memberships are down to almost nothing. The $200K Diamond Memberships they used to sell to suckered customers are now going for $5K. I talked to a gentleman that recently bought a Diamond Membership for $7K. Wanna guess what the extra $2K were for? A timeshare that would allow you to spend a week in one of the condo's that will be built on Front Sight's property. Are you friggin' kidding me? I remember hearing about that million-dollar septic system more than 2.5 years ago. As far as I know, everyone is still using porta-potties. This has all the makings of a pyramid scheme. They will keep dropping the prices until they can no longer attract new customers and then there will be no capital to pay the bills and then the doors will close for good.
Oh well, thank goodness there are still plenty of companies around that provide high-quality firearms training without any gimmicks, lies and scams.
April 22nd, 2010 09:45 AM
Piazza attacked a friend of mine, in a public Front Sight ad a year ago, without having the slightest idea of the facts regarding the issue.
He is a shill and a crook. I personally cannot support his pocket books with a penny of training money; especially when there is better training options out there.
But like others said, more training is better than none.
April 22nd, 2010 10:11 AM
I've been considering the newest membership ploy. If you mailed the 4 "Don't Tread on Me" printouts you can receive lifetime memberships for $419. Glad I read this...
For a man interested only in passin' through, he suddenly found himself entangled in a deadly struggle….
ad utrumque paratus
April 22nd, 2010 10:13 AM
can anyone tell me how to make posts on the webiste?
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