2 Day Defensive Handgun @ Front Sight (long)

2 Day Defensive Handgun @ Front Sight (long)

This is a discussion on 2 Day Defensive Handgun @ Front Sight (long) within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just wanted to share my recent experience at Front Sight. This is my 2nd trip to Front Sight, the 1st was last year, a ...

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Thread: 2 Day Defensive Handgun @ Front Sight (long)

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    2 Day Defensive Handgun @ Front Sight (long)

    I just wanted to share my recent experience at Front Sight.

    This is my 2nd trip to Front Sight, the 1st was last year, a 4 day hangun course. I did a post about it here.

    I did the 2 day course, because I brought a few friends who've never done any training before. Otherwise, I would've opted for the 2 day skill builder course.


    I brought my newly acquired Glock 23 and my XD 9sc. I did the course last year with my Taurus PT1911, and was well pleased with it's performance. This time around, I wanted to see the difference between these two, side by side.



    The 1st day was miserable.

    I chose the Glock for the 1st day. The wind was horrible and cold. We arrived about 7:15 am, got checked in and settled in for the welcome lecture. I had heard it all before, but it was for the benefit for my friends.

    We got to the range about 8:30. I had to suffer through more range instruction, seated, in the cold as hell wind, until 12:00 when we broke for lunch. The only thing we did all morning was go through a couple of dry practice drills. Again, I had to be patient, it was all old stuff to me, but good stuff for my friends.

    I noted here, that the instructor had us presenting from the holster to the ready, without giving adequate instruction on how to properly grip and present, or so was my opinion. I thought that my previous instructor did a better job on this.

    Immediately after lunch, there was another lecture. Me and my younger brother were not required to attend, because we were return students. So, we went out to the range for some 'dry practice''.
    When we got there, our instructor redirected us to another range, telling us to bring our 'ears & ammo. Sometimes the dry practice gets loud '.
    So, we made sure our mags were full, as were our pockets .

    At this range, we started dry practice drills; with our eyes closed. This was new, and fun, to me. After a couple of drills, my brother and I were getting hand sized groups in the thoracic cavity. Granted, this was at close range, but it taught us to bring our weapon up faster.
    It worked.

    Then the instructor springs a skills test on us.

    This was great, but I ran out of ammo

    By this time, the wind had died down and it was beginning to warm up. The lunch time lecture was over and we returned to our original range.


    The G23 was performing great. I immediately noticed that the trigger was a little stiffer and had a definitely quicker reset than my XD. I also fumbled my presentation from my Serpa holster, a couple of times. Getting used to a new holster system as well.


    That morning, it was so cold, that I was wearing every shirt that I owned. They wouldn't allow concealment on the line, so I had to take of my jacket while we went through our drills. It was very cold.
    But, by the afternoon. It was nice. Especially once we started shooting. I was actually having more fun, helping my buddies, rather than shooting myself. I feel like I am definitely ready for a little more advanced class.

    At the end of the day, everyone had a better attitude. I think it was mostly due to the wind dying down.
    My friends were really impressed. They were learning little things that they were unaware of. They did real well.


    Day Two;

    Today is much, much nicer. The morning is brisk and cool, but calm. Today I'm riding with my XD and my SuperTuck.
    We begin at the range. We went through a more thorough holster presentation range lecture. Also, they introduced the after action drills.
    They did stress that the after action drills were insufficient on the street. They were unable, due to the many students, to run through better drills. They instructed us to go home and practice getting off of the line, looking and moving, trying to break that tunnel vision.


    There was another lecture that I was spared. Went out to the range, this time went through lengthy holster presentation drills. It was very helpful. There were a lot of instructors, like 1 to every 3 students, so we got some useful 1 on 1 holster presentation coaching. I feel like I got a little faster, or should I say; smoother.

    I did notice that the trigger on the XD had a lot less resistance and a longer reset. I found quite a few times, trying to deliver a controlled pair, that I would fail to let the trigger out far enough to reset. That extra distance to reset felt like a full minute. I had to consciously, deliberately get that reset, it felt like an eternity, because I had gotten used to the Glock, the day before.

    After lunch, there was another lecture. Us return students were sent to the simulator, instead.

    I walked into the simulator shack, into a room with an instructor. There was a door directly in front of me, one window on my right and two on my left.
    The instructor told me that, whatever I heard I was only to comply with the 'stop' command, and that I should deal with whatever I saw and heard as I saw fit.

    At the command, I went through the firing drill. After I loaded, the instructor asked about my pistol. "What's that?" he said.
    "An XD" I replied. He took it from me to give it a once over.
    "Oh, it's a sub-compact with an extended mag, nice"

    He gave it back to me.


    All of a sudden, he starts banging on something to simulate knocking on the door. Using profanity, as if he was the bad guy banging on the door (yikes! I wasn't expecting it) he got me rattled and the door flew open revealing a bad guy, all I saw was a muzzle pointed at me and I had my sight picture, press... click :crap:!
    Real quick, I cleared the malfunction and delivered two swift shots to the BG's midsection.

    That was the highlight of the simulator. Other targets swung into view in the windows, I had to discern if they were threats or not.
    The thing that I liked, was the instructor's verbal acting. He did a good job. I did get frazzled. But I gave good shots.

    After the drill, the instructor complimented me on my shots and gave me a live round saying, "good job on that type 1 clearance".

    He had deliberately given me the malfunction, when he looked at my gun! Well played


    We finished out the day, doing firing drills, failure to stop drills, malfunction clearance drills, etc.

    We had a jolly good time. My buddies are anxious to return, as am I.


    A parting note between the Glock and XD;

    I noticed the grip angle difference. But it wasn't enough of a factor to make any difference to me. I noticed the sight radius difference.
    The biggest difference, to me, was the trigger reset. Glock gives you an advantage to be able to shoot a little faster. But, train with whatever you carry, both are super pistols. The next time around, I will only take one weapon platform, I fell back a little on my presentation and delivery, due to switching midstream.

    I know there are other schools of thought, than Front Sight. But, it's affordable and relatively close. 3 1/2 hrs from my place. I don't really jive with their marketing strategy, but they have a reason and a method for what they do.

    Everybody ought to attend at least once.
    Last edited by zacii; May 6th, 2010 at 12:22 PM. Reason: spelling
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source


  2. #2
    Member Array mamakennedy's Avatar
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    I'm heading for one later this year, and I can't wait to go!
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws... serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Cesare Beccaria

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    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    Good review, hope to make it down to one this fall.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post

    Day Two;

    Today is much, much nicer. The morning is brisk and cool, but calm. Today I'm riding with my XD and my SuperTuck.
    We begin at the range. We went through a more thorough holster presentation range lecture. Also, they introduced the after action drills.
    They did stress that the after action drills were insufficient on the street. They were unable, due to the many students, to run through better drills. They instructed us to go home and practice getting off of the line, looking and moving, trying to break that tunnel vision.
    FULL STOP.

    HOLD ON...

    How many people in the class and how many instructors?

    Too many students...OK.

    This is a video of Tactical Response's class Fighting Pistol.
    YouTube - McKenzie - 11yo Girl at Shooting Range #1 of #3
    Note how the 11 year old in this video safely performs a 360 degree scan after shooting.

    I took the same class at another time/location with 25 students, 3 instructors, and they had us moving like it was a class on FIGHTING with a handgun.

    Movement and scanning are as critical as shooting. They shouldn't have neglected it.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    FULL STOP.

    HOLD ON...

    How many people in the class and how many instructors?

    Too many students...OK.

    This is a video of Tactical Response's class Fighting Pistol.
    YouTube - McKenzie - 11yo Girl at Shooting Range #1 of #3
    Note how the 11 year old in this video safely performs a 360 degree scan after shooting.

    I took the same class at another time/location with 25 students, 3 instructors, and they had us moving like it was a class on FIGHTING with a handgun.

    Movement and scanning are as critical as shooting. They shouldn't have neglected it.

    We had 42 people, 3 range instructors. The people were divided into 2 relays. One relay would shoot, while the other relay would observe for safety.

    They do offer more movement techniques in their more advanced classes; shooting while moving, shooting while moving and engaging multiple targets. 360 degree movement and shooting scenarios.

    The 2 day class is definitely a beginner class. They get into the other good stuff in their skill builder and tactical classes, all the way up to their force on force, with simmunitions classes. But, in this type of class, with so many beginners, it just wasn't practical. They didn't neglect it, they just wanted to go through basics and get you to come back for more advanced classes.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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