21 foot rule

This is a discussion on 21 foot rule within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A guy running 21 feet to slash an IDPA target to demo the 21 foot rule. YouTube - 21 Foot Rule Less Talk and More ...

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Thread: 21 foot rule

  1. #1
    New Member Array equilibrium's Avatar
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    21 foot rule

    A guy running 21 feet to slash an IDPA target to demo the 21 foot rule.

    YouTube - 21 Foot Rule Less Talk and More action (compiled and shortened)

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Yep...Mozambique drill...well discussed.

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    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    the head shot is risky because you need to be moving off the x with a fast approaching agressor...multiple com and abdominal shots would be more effective as most abdominal hits result in an assailant dropping their weapon and the com shots will be easier to make o a moving target than high head shots while stepping off his line...

    the mozambique drill works great in idpa events where the target is still...when its moving its a risky game when the body is such a large and effective target...

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Yep...Mozambique drill...well discussed.

    Welcome to DC.com
    I don't think a guy with a knife coming at you from within 21' gives you much opportunity to utilize your Mozambique skills. It would seem a time to just empty your magazine at center of mass to me.

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I might be wrong, but I thought the 21' foot deal was called 'Tueller Drill'

    The Tueller Drill/21' Rule Revisited, IDPA style

    The idea is that the average man can cover 21' in about 1.5 seconds, so the drill is supposed to get you to present in less time, with someone closing the distance on you.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    Member Array thephanatik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    I might be wrong, but I thought the 21' foot deal was called 'Tueller Drill'

    The Tueller Drill/21' Rule Revisited, IDPA style

    Correct, the Mozambique drill refers to a double tap the center of mass, assessing, then going for a head shot.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    I might be wrong, but I thought the 21' foot deal was called 'Tueller Drill'

    .
    Yeah. I think SIGguy just mixed Tueller up with Mozambique. Understandable.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    I might be wrong, but I thought the 21' foot deal was called 'Tueller Drill'

    The Tueller Drill/21' Rule Revisited, IDPA style

    The idea is that the average man can cover 21' in about 1.5 seconds, so the drill is supposed to get you to present in less time, with someone closing the distance on you.
    Carp....you are correct...my mistake...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  10. #9
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Yeah. I think SIGguy just mixed Tueller up with Mozambique. Understandable.
    Unless you are Mrs. Tueller.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    FOOD FOR THOUGHT..............

    During training when we place targets of an individual holding a knife 21' away and activate the automatic target retreval it is amazing the number of officers who never clear their holsters before the target reaches them. Of the officers that do get rounds downrange less than 50% get 3 hits in vital areas.The same drill from the low ready returns better results which definately says something for having your weapon in your hand. When force on force training with simmunitions is done with an actual attacker closing the distance the results are worse. All uniformed officers are using Level III security holsters.
    Investigators have Level II holsters but must draw from a concealed carry.
    It is a real wakeup call.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

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  12. #11
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    More food for thought...Get an airsoft gun, paintball masks and a training knife. Then see what the dynamics are REALLY like and just how close you can beat the knife guy by getting off line QUICKLY.

    In our FOF classes we run "Tueller Drills" as close as 3 yards and the good guy wins more times than not....if he worries more about moving than he does about drawing. That is to say that if you stand still long enough to draw you'll get stabbed. If you get moving and THEN draw you'll have better results.

    Once you have experienced this a few times you'll become far more acclimated to it and suddenly you'll be able to focus on more thanjust getting your gun out. Once you have gotten acclimated to it you will be able to stop using all your mental capacity on panic and actually hit people where you want to hit them. Yes...even in the head.

    Don't take my word for it. test it yourself.
    Randy Harris
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Master Class IDPA SSP

    TRAIN with me....http://www.suarezinternationalstore....px?find=harris

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Carp....you are correct...my mistake...
    Err, SIGguy, I think you have *carp* mixed up with *crap*. One's a bony fish, the other is , well,

  14. #13
    Member Array AllAbtSlfDef's Avatar
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    When we do this drill its AMAZING how many people don't move off center. They just stand there, if someone is doped up and you shoot them they don't always stop. My dad has told me stories about the VC (viet cong) who were on opium and had full mags emptied in them and didn't stop. There is a scientifical term for being dead and not realizing it. I forget what it is. A taser instructor mentioned it to me.

    This drill is fun and teaches you alot.

    Jason
    "Put on the whole armor of God..."

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    FOOD FOR THOUGHT..............

    During training when we place targets of an individual holding a knife 21' away and activate the automatic target retreval it is amazing the number of officers who never clear their holsters before the target reaches them. Of the officers that do get rounds downrange less than 50% get 3 hits in vital areas.The same drill from the low ready returns better results which definately says something for having your weapon in your hand. When force on force training with simmunitions is done with an actual attacker closing the distance the results are worse. All uniformed officers are using Level III security holsters.
    Investigators have Level II holsters but must draw from a concealed carry.
    It is a real wakeup call.
    This is why the Tueller drill is a training TOOL not a RULE. Lots of agencies are stretching the distance to 30 feet and more because of the added time to draw from security holsters.
    “Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.”

  16. #15
    Member Array Airman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllAbtSlfDef View Post
    When we do this drill its AMAZING how many people don't move off center. They just stand there, if someone is doped up and you shoot them they don't always stop. My dad has told me stories about the VC (viet cong) who were on opium and had full mags emptied in them and didn't stop.
    +1. Get on the move. A few back steps could give you an extra fraction of a second as well as getting you out of the attackers path.
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."

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