Center Axis Relock (C.A.R.) Combat Stance

This is a discussion on Center Axis Relock (C.A.R.) Combat Stance within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just a couple of questions: 1) Does anyone use this stance? 2) Does anyone know of any great, informational websites describing this stance besides the ...

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Thread: Center Axis Relock (C.A.R.) Combat Stance

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    Senior Member Array AZ Hawk's Avatar
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    Center Axis Relock (C.A.R.) Combat Stance

    Just a couple of questions:

    1) Does anyone use this stance?

    2) Does anyone know of any great, informational websites describing this stance besides the one's that pop up on the first few searches on Google?

    EDIT: Since, this is a military / LE "only" stance, or system as they like to call it, does anyone practice the civilian "IPD" version? I guess that's what I should have originally asked.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

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    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    I am a master instructor in Center Axis Relock. CAR is not a stance, it is a system. It is not what I would use out of the holster during a spontaneous attack but it is what I use when "looking for work" IE covering down on someone or clearing a building. IMHO there is nothing better for out of the holster weapon retention than the CAR position.

    The interesting thing about CAR is that it is very hard to understand by reading or looking at pictures, but you can pick up the basics with a little first hand instruction very fast. My detractors have never been through the course or been shown it by a certified instructor. If you have any more question let me know.- George

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    Member Array Horsetrader's Avatar
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    On the serious side....what mercop said.

    But just cause I have a "fun side": In the video game "Splinter Cell: Conviction" the system is used by Sam Fisher character.
    "Improvise, adapt, overcome."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    I am a master instructor in Center Axis Relock. CAR is not a stance, it is a system. It is not what I would use out of the holster during a spontaneous attack but it is what I use when "looking for work" IE covering down on someone or clearing a building. IMHO there is nothing better for out of the holster weapon retention than the CAR position.

    The interesting thing about CAR is that it is very hard to understand by reading or looking at pictures, but you can pick up the basics with a little first hand instruction very fast. My detractors have never been through the course or been shown it by a certified instructor. If you have any more question let me know.- George
    Thanks for the response. Do you want me to e-mail you or PM you, or is it fine to ask questions on a public forum? I know that it is primarily a LE / Military system, and my goals lie in the realm of federal law enforcement, and I'm of the type that likes to know about all different styles.

    I just finished reading everything on the site, with the exception of going through the whole course, and it makes perfect sense that you would use one system to cover all or most different types of firearms. I looked on the Sabre Tactical website and saw there were no instructors in my area (Phoenix area). Is the online course worth it? I am an extremely quick learner, but prefer hands on experience to course work.
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horsetrader View Post
    On the serious side....what mercop said.

    But just cause I have a "fun side": In the video game "Splinter Cell: Conviction" the system is used by Sam Fisher character.
    Haha thanks. I did see that on the Wikipedia article: Center Axis Relock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    I am a master instructor in Center Axis Relock. CAR is not a stance, it is a system. It is not what I would use out of the holster during a spontaneous attack but it is what I use when "looking for work" IE covering down on someone or clearing a building. IMHO there is nothing better for out of the holster weapon retention than the CAR position.

    The interesting thing about CAR is that it is very hard to understand by reading or looking at pictures, but you can pick up the basics with a little first hand instruction very fast. My detractors have never been through the course or been shown it by a certified instructor. If you have any more question let me know.- George
    I've seen a few demonstrations and have always wanted to attend a class, but have not yet had the opportunity. I have played around with what my understanding of the techniques are (without any instruction) for some specific applications though. If you don't mind, I have two primary questions from my limited understanding. 1) Doesn't the body position used in CAR limit the protective capability of body armor? 2) Does it limit your marksmanship ability at distance because of the short distance between the rear sight and your eye?

    Thanks,
    Dusty

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    Member Array gilliland87's Avatar
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    AZ Hawk

    I too am in the phoenix area, My aspirations are not as lofty as yours but I too have looked into this system/method. If it comes to it maybe we could group enough guys to bring in an instructor. Drop me a PM if ya want or we could start another thread maybe.

    Mercop- Your posts are always very informative and I always look forward to reading our perspectives. Thank you for your time spent on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilliland87 View Post
    I too am in the phoenix area, My aspirations are not as lofty as yours but I too have looked into this system/method. If it comes to it maybe we could group enough guys to bring in an instructor. Drop me a PM if ya want or we could start another thread maybe.

    Mercop- Your posts are always very informative and I always look forward to reading our perspectives. Thank you for your time spent on this forum.
    That would definitely be cool. Probably should start another thread first, to see if there is any interest outside of the two of us. Great thinking!
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

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    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DS99 View Post
    I've seen a few demonstrations and have always wanted to attend a class, but have not yet had the opportunity. I have played around with what my understanding of the techniques are (without any instruction) for some specific applications though. If you don't mind, I have two primary questions from my limited understanding. 1) Doesn't the body position used in CAR limit the protective capability of body armor? 2) Does it limit your marksmanship ability at distance because of the short distance between the rear sight and your eye?

    Thanks,
    Dusty
    Contrary to popular square range beliefs we may square to the target during and initial response but dynamic movement is the key. Even when I was still on the job I was on my own with no body armor 16 hrs a day. Several officers have been killed by armpit shots finding their way to the heart because of extended arms even when wearing armor. Using CAR the armpits are not left exposed. For anything over say 10 yards your would push the gun out to what we call the Apogee position to take advantage of the sights and traditional marksmanship. This however accounts for a very small portion of shootings. I have no problem answering questions in the open about me, anyone I am associated with, or any of my training.- George

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Even if you don't adopt the whole C.A.R. system, the stance is particularly useful for circumstances where you need to direct fire towards your support side. It's quite nice for moving to the right rear (for a right handed shooter) and great for firing out the driver's side window of a vehicle.

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    I learned the C.A.R. system from Paul Castle 25 plus years ago and continue to use and teach it. Great system as Mercop said for certain enviroments.
    Well worth the effort to learn it.
    There is a good video on Youtube called "Good Cop Bad Cop" which was a reality tv show that has Paul teaching the system to cops. Worth a look.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    I am a master instructor in Center Axis Relock. CAR is not a stance, it is a system. It is not what I would use out of the holster during a spontaneous attack but it is what I use when "looking for work" IE covering down on someone or clearing a building. IMHO there is nothing better for out of the holster weapon retention than the CAR position.
    this statement seesm to sum up what i can see with the limited research ive done on the subject...exceptional for retention and cover/clearing work...very interesting system and i would like to spend some time working on it...

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    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Unlike other traditional shooting platforms CAR is supported by human anatomy and physiology. What I have noticed is that under stress most people revert to the isosceles. People trained in CAR revert to CAR. At least that is what I have seen in person and on video. It also immediately makes sense to those with martial arts experience. Since about 90% of what we do is one handed CAR just makes sense- George

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercop View Post
    Unlike other traditional shooting platforms CAR is supported by human anatomy and physiology. What I have noticed is that under stress most people revert to the isosceles. People trained in CAR revert to CAR. At least that is what I have seen in person and on video. It also immediately makes sense to those with martial arts experience. Since about 90% of what we do is one handed CAR just makes sense- George
    Seems folks will almost always revert to their training under stress if the training involves a lot of repetition...that's for both good and bad things of course. Thanks for the response earlier. I'd love to take a class in CAR sometime, always looking to learn. Won't have time until the fall or winter though. Do you have a course schedule posted somewhere?

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    The "bladed stance" used in C.A.R. is a MUCH more natural stance in any situation. I was experimenting with it today, and I realized that when I draw, I have a natural tendency to turn my "reaction side" (the side of my body opposite my weapon) towards the target. I don't draw and go straight into the Weaver...

    I shot at the range today using the C.A.R. "Extended" stance with pretty darn good results considering it was the first time I've ever tried it. I'll post up the pics. It draws quite the audience, too. The range supervisor guy seemed like he was about to come ask if I'd ever shot before based on the expression on his face. Then he saw that I was right on target, and just said, "That's an interesting way to shoot, friend."

    Combat Axis Relock "Extended"- 12rds at 4yds + 12rds at 6yds


    Combat Axis Relock "Extended" - 24rds @ 7yds (Picture sucks)


    C.A.R. "Extended" - 12rds @ 10yds
    Move. Shoot. Survive. ― The "Unofficial" Suarez International Doctrine

    “The real man smiles in trouble, gathers strength from distress and grows brave by reflection.” ― Thomas Paine

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