Point shooting critique

Point shooting critique

This is a discussion on Point shooting critique within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know it's not possible for a full critique from some target photos. But I thought I would look to some folks with more experience ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Point shooting critique

    I know it's not possible for a full critique from some target photos. But I thought I would look to some folks with more experience than me. I've been reading some of the posts on Warrior Talk, and intend to read more. Very good info. It actually lines up with where I am at with my range practice. I would rather try to simulate a real defensive shoot than just punch big ragged holes in paper. All my shots are on the body, so I'm pretty happy.

    The set up. I am shooting a G19. Target was Cramerton Police target, CBBT-06. Full size BG target. Target was at 3 yrds today, and set up to be about 6' tall. Shooting at an indoor range with designated lanes, so no moving. I took the first 10-15 shots by drawing slowly and getting my pistol aligned in front with a 2 hand grip. Then I shot about 50 rds in 5 shot drills. I would draw from concealment, take 2 shots low just out of the holster, then transition to 3 shots taken semi sighted. This drill is done as fast as I can shoot, and it's much faster than I ever thought I would get to be. Forgive my lack of jargon for the descriptions. So far all my shots are taken 2 handed.

    I am getting more serious about taking a pistol class. So far my only training has come from boards like this, online videos, and my CCP class.

    Pics.
    G19



    Playing around with the Keltec P3at. 3yrds. Not drawing, just raising the gun and firing. Mostly starting low, and finishing with some higher shots. All point shot, not aimed. The sights are worthless anyway.




    Something I noticed today. I had read an article on WT about turning the situation from reactive to proactive in your shooting. With that in mind I would take the first 2 shots feeling like I was reacting to the threat, then I would step into the shot and finish with 3 COM. Not only did it make a mental difference. It made a physiological difference, I have never had my heartrate come up while target shooting. But just the act of increasing the mental aggression kicked up my heart rate. It also seemed to increase my accuracy. Interesting. Another thing that seemed to increase my accuracy was getting a "hard focus" on the point where the jacket comes together. That was my POA.

    Critique away. Thanks.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array 1911PKR's Avatar
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    Point shooting is a great exercise. Rockin' the gun out your holster smoothly. "Smooth is fast". I'd strongly recommend a close quarters shooting class. Your weak hand should be up against your chest when your practicing shooting from the hip. You could shoot yourself in the hand and that'll leave a permanent mark.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array borglyn's Avatar
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    1911pk
    Thank you for the weak hand tip. I am still learning.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911PKR View Post
    Point shooting is a great exercise. Rockin' the gun out your holster smoothly. "Smooth is fast". I'd strongly recommend a close quarters shooting class. Your weak hand should be up against your chest when your practicing shooting from the hip. You could shoot yourself in the hand and that'll leave a permanent mark.
    I was pretty worried about this at first, and realize that it's a risk. But I figure if I can point a gun and make it shot where I want it too, I can bring two hands together in a grip to shoot. Basically, once the trigger is being pulled I am in a two handed grip.

    It goes like this. Weak hand lifts my shirt. I drive my strong hand down onto my pistol. Pull the pistol out of the holster. Drop the shirt with the weak hand. Bring both hands into a two handed grip, level the pistol in front of me, and fire. And I can honestly say that I know if I have a bad grip or not. The hole that is on the far left side, on the arm, I knew as I pulled the trigger that is was not a solid grip. It might be a touch slower than one handed, but not much. I do work some one handed stuff too.

    And yeah, I want to find a class to take at some point soon.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array 1911PKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post

    It goes like this. Weak hand lifts my shirt. I drive my strong hand down onto my pistol. Pull the pistol out of the holster. Dr
    Humm... "Weak hand lifts my shirt". Not in a real life gun fight it doesn't. Happens within 10 feet. More likely you'll be fighting the attacker off with your weak hand. You may be lucky to get it out of your holster. You may have a tac light or a cell phone in your off hand.

    For safety purposes, your off hand goes over your chest. Your thumb sweeps your t-shirt up and the web of your hand seats on weapon. The weapon should be "rocked out of the craddle" pointing towards BG's COM.,at hip level. Weak side turned sideways towards BG as so he can't grab the firearm. Then (if given the chance) bring the weapon up to chest level, drive the gun forward and look for the front sight. Trigger can be pulled anytime after the weapon clears the leather.

    Chances of you getting a bead on a BG or even lookin' down a sight plane in a gunfight are slim to none, at best.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    chiefjason, it looks as if you are off to a fine start!

    I had read an article on WT about turning the situation from reactive to proactive in your shooting. With that in mind I would take the first 2 shots feeling like I was reacting to the threat, then I would step into the shot and finish with 3 COM. Not only did it make a mental difference. It made a physiological difference, I have never had my heartrate come up while target shooting. But just the act of increasing the mental aggression kicked up my heart rate. It also seemed to increase my accuracy.
    I call that "shifting of the gears." A huge part of my training is the mental aspect of the fight and the fluid situational response that comes out of it.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    That is something I have been wanting to work on. And one of the reasons I do need to get into a class. Unfortunately, some of the things I would love to work on are not possible in an indoor range. Things stay real squared up. Movement is limited to 1 step front or back at most. That is one of my problems. Not having a place that I can practice in more than a head on situation. Some of that will have to be dry runs at home.

    One of the reasons I have started working on the point shooting idea is from hearing over and over that the sites rarely get used. I would not say never. But the initial shots seem to be more reactive and instinctual than sighted.

    Thanks for the input.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array 1911PKR's Avatar
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    I understand the limitations of indoor ranges. IPDA is your best bet if your serious.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweatnbullets View Post
    chiefjason, it looks as if you are off to a fine start!



    I call that "shifting of the gears." A huge part of my training is the mental aspect of the fight and the fluid situational response that comes out of it.
    Thanks. Great articles by the way. I was quite surprised, enough to notice it, that my heart rate went up. It's not done that since I started shooting. But it was not a nervous response, since the movements were not new to me. Occasionally it will happen when I am trying something different. As 1911 pointed out, shooting yourself while trying something new is not good so the nerves are a bit more on edge. But all this was pretty normal, except for the aggressive lean into the target. Kind of like an, "Oh no you didn't just do that." The trigger squeeze was quicker and this was by far the best looking "group" that I have gotten. Basically, it felt much more aggressive and my body seemed to respond in kind. Off to do more reading and watching till the next range session.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  10. #10
    Member Array 7677's Avatar
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    It appears to me that you have developed the necessary eye/hand coordination and are ready to add movement to your tool box.

    My advice is to buy a gas air soft gun that matches your carry gun so you can practice at home. This will also allow you to practice regularly and learn the basic movement drills without the worry of shooting yourself in the process.

    If you follow the link in my sig line and search for a thread called layman's guide for movement, the guide will give you a starting point up to advanced movement techniques.

    Remember to be effective at dynamic movement off the vector of attack you need to start your feet in motion before you draw your weapon.
    "TOUJOURS PRET"

  11. #11
    Member Array 7677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7677 View Post
    It appears to me that you have developed the necessary eye/hand coordination and are ready to add movement to your tool box.

    My advice is to buy a gas air soft gun that matches your carry gun so you can practice at home. This will also allow you to practice regularly and learn the basic movement drills without the worry of shooting yourself in the process.

    If you follow the link in my sig line and search for a thread called layman's guide for movement, the guide will give you a starting point up to advanced movement techniques.

    Remember to be effective at dynamic movement off the vector of attack you need to start your feet in motion before you draw your weapon.
    Here are the links to above guide:
    THE INTEGRATED CLOSE COMBAT FORUM - The Layman's Primer to Movement in Gunfights
    Or,
    The Layman's Primer To Movement In Gunfights - Threat Focused Forums
    "TOUJOURS PRET"

  12. #12
    Member Array DS99's Avatar
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    Taking a class from a good instructor would be a great idea, but it does look like you are off to a great start.

    A lot of the movement and weapons handling can (and should) be done dry. You can build the repetition necessary for performance under stress with about 80 percent dry work and 20 percent live fire work. This also helps you deal with the range limitations that we all face most of the time.

    Good luck!

    D.S.
    Sealed Mindset, Director of Training
    www.sealedmindset.com

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