50 yard head shot - Page 3

50 yard head shot

This is a discussion on 50 yard head shot within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't use 'rests', etc. as I'm not going to happen to be carrying one along. A "rest" could be as simple as a door ...

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Thread: 50 yard head shot

  1. #31
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    I don't use 'rests', etc. as I'm not going to happen to be carrying one along.
    A "rest" could be as simple as a door way, a table, a chair.
    Just anything to steady your aim. It could be the top of a clothes rack at Walmart or even getting prone and placing one hand on top of the other that is on the floor. Every little bit helps.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  2. #32
    Member Array carguy2244's Avatar
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    Iceman says:
    "Marksmanship yes, training no."

    Iceman please clarify why you think marksmanship is NOT an important part of training?

  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Only at the range when I"m trying to out shoot my friend(s). In SD, no.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  4. #34
    Member Array Ice Man's Avatar
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    I have made myself abundantly clear that taking a 50 yard shot in self defence would be an awful decision, either resulting in the shooter rotting in prison or a bystander being hit.

    Marksmanship is a skill, training is preparing yourself for the unexpected. The realm of marksmanship crosses the realm of self defence, but they are far from the same thing. I practice my marksmanship with a 300 Winchester Magnum at extreme ranges for the sake of ego. To say that I was training to take a deer at 800 yards would be a laugh. In reality, much of that distance should be closed before firing. Could I make an 800 yard shot on a deer? Maybe, but it would be a poor descision. Self defence is not a sport, marksmanship is. Getting a dinger in the next township is something to be proud of, wounding deer and loosing them is poor sportsmanship, and attempting a head shot on a human at 50 yards is most likely criminal.

    If I was taking a 50 yard shot at someone in a park, I would expect someone else with a pistol in that park to take a shot at me.

    You are confusing "I am a crack shot, we should go to the range so I can embarras you" with "I am training to shoot a person in the head at 50 yards".
    My GLOCK goes BANG every time!

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array 45ACP4ever's Avatar
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    If I had a shot at a mall shooter 50yds down a hallway who was gunning people down, you bet your a** I'd take it. Just because YOU don't train to do it, doesn't mean others can't/don't/won't.

    That being said, I don't train for it. Center mass, yeah on occasion. Why? Why not says I. Odds are against me even having to use a gun for defense, but if I have to use a gun, then the odds that it could be at a range over 5yds are not great, but plausable. Therefore I train to use it effectively at ranges out to 50yds. If nothing else it'll help improve my trigger control etc for closer range shots.
    "It is your evil that will be sought by us. With every breath we will hunt them down. Each day we will spill their blood, until it rains down from the skies. Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles that every man from every faith can embrace." -McManus twins Boondock Saints

  6. #36
    Member Array rickmn50's Avatar
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    I can't even see 50 yards any more!! Train to do a 50 yard head shot with a handgun...unlikely?!

    Just my 2 cents.
    Best Regards from Minnesota,

    Rick

  7. #37
    Member Array carguy2244's Avatar
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    Iceman, the goal of effective training is to maximize potential. In this case, that means being capable of shooting accurately to the maximum accurate range of the weapon. My Glock 19 is probably good for 5 inch groups at 50 yards, so I train to get my skills on par with that. Don't you want to be as good as your weapon?

  8. #38
    Member Array Ice Man's Avatar
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    My common sense would tell me to aim for center of mass, and if downrange is clear, send a whole magazine at him. The reality is that a 50 yard head shot attempt would be a wasted shot.

    You are totally missing my point by a mile. Honing your marksmanship is a good thing, distance will magnify your faults by ten fold. Just because I shoot at a tin can does not mean I am training for a tin can invasion, and just because I practice my marksmanship on a silouette at 50 yards does not mean it is a realistic scenerio to take a 50 yard head shot. A human head is only about 6'' wide, by your own admission your G19 patterns 5'' at 50 yards. A 1'' mistake on your part can equal a total miss. So unless you can consistantly hit a one to two inch target at 50 yards, you should "train" for a COM shot.
    My GLOCK goes BANG every time!

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    A "rest" could be as simple as a door way, a table, a chair.
    Just anything to steady your aim. It could be the top of a clothes rack at Walmart or even getting prone and placing one hand on top of the other that is on the floor. Every little bit helps.
    Gee, sorry for the sarcasism , but like I never thought of that....

    I saying I will not practice it. I've seen too many people become very reliant on it, and any time I've had to shoot at anyone..... finding a "rest" to use, or even anything around that could used as one even if I had wanted to, wasn't big on my mind at the time.

    Now, the time the guy was shooting at us from about 200 + yards with a rifle, "cover" was the most important thing on my mind ... especially with bullets hitting within 6 inches of me, and one within an inch of my bud's head. After that, the "hood" worked as a rest, but it didn't help.

    I think it's a very bad habit to develop for self-defense shooting practice. Now, if they want to be a champion target shooter, by all means........
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
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  10. #40
    Member Array Shackleton's Avatar
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    Firstly, I agree with Ret, 50 yards, I'm outta there.

    Also, what I want to know is...he works for a government agency and tells you things about how they train? Just me, but I'd think that would be looked down upon.
    Semper Paratus

    ‎"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carguy2244 View Post
    ... train to make 50 yard head shots. Do you train for 50 yard head shots? What are your success rates?
    Every attempt to erase a felon's attempt to harm me or mine must be justified, legally speaking. Shots of that distance get fairly hard to justify, hence I'm not training for such things very often. With my current pistols, I am not reliably accurate that far from the target.

    Besides which, the simple fact is that 50yds affords a bit of opportunity to exit, as others have suggested. Depending on the "terrain" (ie, buildings, cars, brush or other cover), going elsewhere might be the best option, when the felon is over 50yds from me. Might well be going out to take down the felon is the only option, but that's not likely. Depends on the situation, obviously.

    With my old Browning BDM 9mm in the 1990's, I could hit a soda pop can at 100yds with fair frequency. Fifty yards was reasonably easy to do, and 25yds was holed nearly every time. Except for that one, specific pistol, I have not trained to shoot effectively beyond 25yds since then. With my lever-action rifle and the 12ga with slugs, sure, but otherwise no.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; July 19th, 2010 at 10:46 AM. Reason: grammar
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #42
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    My common sense would tell me to aim for center of mass, and if downrange is clear, send a whole magazine at him. The reality is that a 50 yard head shot attempt would be a wasted shot.
    You are assuming that you have a center of mass shot.

    If you are in a mall or a church or whatever and someone is just shooting everyone in sight, it would be prudent to take whatever shot you had.

    Anyone that has ever been in a military firefight will tell you that the targets can be mighty small and fleeting.

    What if some Al Queda thugs showed up in a mall and started shooting just to make a statement? All of a sudden that 50 yards shot doesnt seem so far fetched. You have every right to shoot. They are trained and shooting from concealment or cover.

    You see one shooting indiscriminatly at everyone that moves. He his using a fountain for cover and all you see is his head. You wont shoot because you think it is a wasted shot, yet all the time people are dropping like flies.

    Fifty yards isnt that far. Air Marshals train for it. Think about it. A large jet can easily be 50 yards long and all you have are heads to look at. It can be done.

    Think any active shooter scenario. A school for instance. Fifty yards can become awfully close.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  13. #43
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    I routinely practice shooting at BG targets up to and including 100 yards, with my handgun.

    My reasoning: I live with 20 miles of the US Mexican border. I prospect and investigate/photgraph ghost towns in this area. Mostly alone.

    I can send you photgraphs of the signs the US government has posted warning people about smugglers and undocumented travelers in this area.
    These signs have been here and posted before this latest Hallybuloo over SB1070.

    IF I ever need to make a shot at that distance I know that if I am unable to hit my armed target I will be able to persuade the target to seek cover while "I get out of Dodge"

    FWIW no hostages would be involved

    Numerous backpacks are avaiable, Used only once.

    PS: A rifle would be more practical but it gets in the way of carrying water, camera, metal detectors and other equipment.

  14. #44
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    When I go shooting with friends just for target shooting, I try to shoot out to between 25 - 50 yards at most with handgun. Rifle shooting for hunting purposes I practice out to about 125 - 200 yards tops.

    When I do defensive training, I'd have to say that most of my training is done at contact distance out to 5 - 10 feet. In that training, I'm training on weapon retention tactics, disarming techniques, drawing against the drop and engaging multiple targets, weak hand shooting and using my BUG. I do some force on force training whenever I get together with people who own air soft guns as I don't own any as of yet, but I had 10 years of force on force training when I was on swat.

    When I take a defensive shooting course, I get a much wider variety of situations and ranges to target. After 10 years of being a swat medic, I finally gave that up. However, when I was active our team trained about 12 hrs./month on all aspects of swat work.

    For most civilian lethal force scenario's one would encounter out on the street it's most often going to be a robbery attempt which comes up close and personal. To a lesser extent, walking into a group of thugs who are just wanting to thuggish for no particular reason. It may end up being a robbery but sometimes all they are doing is looking for an excuse to commit violence on some unsuspecting good guy.

    So, I train for the most likely scenarios I'm likely to face and I am very good at those types of situations. Then I do try to spend some time working at farther distances.

    I do not specifically train for "head shots" at 50 yards. I just don't see the point in doing that. Can I hit a head sized target at 50 yards? Probably more often than not depending on which gun I'm using and how much time I have to focus on the shot.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    I certainly DO NOT practice head shots at distance. However, distance shots, at rest or free standing, are definitely possible. At a minimum you can hit COM. I carry a G26 and/or a G19 with XS Big Dot sights. I do give the distance shots a try sometimes, just to satisfy my NEED. Most of my training is done 15 yards and in. That is when I practice my COM and Head Shots...stationary and moving...

    Here's a few distance shots with XS sights...G19...NOT ME!!! LOL

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY5RURFEGd8
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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