50 yard head shot - Page 4

50 yard head shot

This is a discussion on 50 yard head shot within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, I am going to bow out of this one. I think that the average Joe training to take a 50 yard head shot is ...

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Thread: 50 yard head shot

  1. #46
    Member Array Ice Man's Avatar
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    OK, I am going to bow out of this one. I think that the average Joe training to take a 50 yard head shot is fooling himself into believing he is Jack Bauer. It that kind of situation, even highly trained people feel the negative effects heavily. The average Joe's hands turn to flippers and he shakes like a leaf. OK, OK, you can make a head shot under stress at 50 yards, I cant. I would be wasting precious lead. I would attempt to close that gap and keep my pistol covered until I had a real shot. If this was not possible, I would send some lead down there the best I could and expect a hail or return fire.

    Could a battle hardened soldier pull it off? Maybe. Could a highly trained and seasoned LEO do it? Maybe, but most of us would poop our pants and shake like a leaf. I believe that in a real life situation, an average Joe would be throwing his chance away of doing any good by attempting a shot like that.
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  2. #47
    Member Array GrandBob's Avatar
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    I believe that in a real life situation, an average Joe would be throwing his chance away of doing any good by attempting a shot like that.
    One thing is for certain...you'll never do it if you dont take the shot.

    I would rather attempt it and get lucky than not attempt it and watch people die.

  3. #48
    Member Array Alpine's Avatar
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    50 yards? With a pistol? I've tried it with mini reactive targets. Anyone who thinks they would take that shot over the shoulder of a hostage is mistaken or should get real.

    You have one shot. Your adrenaline is jacked. You have only standard pistol sights. You have no point of aim to go by, since it's your first shot. You have no time or ability to judge wind (which matters at that distance with a pistol). Come on. You are almost guaranteed to hit anything but the target.

    Same goes for Air Marshals. They train at the same distances as most federal agents. Go to the range, set your target at 50 yards, turn around, then face, draw, and fire ONE shot. If you didn't hit the target's head, you just killed someone.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandBob View Post
    One thing is for certain...you'll never do it if you dont take the shot.

    I would rather attempt it and get lucky than not attempt it and watch people die.
    You just made the assumption you hit your target by getting lucky. What would you do if you missed and hit a 32 year old mother of 3 in the head instead.

    Personally, I don't see a scenario where I have to take that kind of shot. Not even a mass killing spree in a crowded shopping mall.

    I'm just saying...
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #50
    Senior Member Array 45ACP4ever's Avatar
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    Wow, people got pretty pissed off in this thread.
    "It is your evil that will be sought by us. With every breath we will hunt them down. Each day we will spill their blood, until it rains down from the skies. Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles that every man from every faith can embrace." -McManus twins Boondock Saints

  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Thread derailments and semantics aside, I do not train for head shots period.
    I do train at 50 and 100 yards with a rifle but it is for hunting and pest control.
    Sometimes I will try my hand at hitting a steel plate at 100 yards with a pistol but it is purely for fun.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Thread derailments and semantics aside, I do not train for head shots period.
    I couldn't agree more. Head shots is nothing I ever practice ...
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    You are assuming that you have a center of mass shot.

    If you are in a mall or a church or whatever and someone is just shooting everyone in sight, it would be prudent to take whatever shot you had.

    Anyone that has ever been in a military firefight will tell you that the targets can be mighty small and fleeting.

    What if some Al Queda thugs showed up in a mall and started shooting just to make a statement? All of a sudden that 50 yards shot doesnt seem so far fetched. You have every right to shoot. They are trained and shooting from concealment or cover.

    You see one shooting indiscriminatly at everyone that moves. He his using a fountain for cover and all you see is his head. You wont shoot because you think it is a wasted shot, yet all the time people are dropping like flies.

    Fifty yards isnt that far. Air Marshals train for it. Think about it. A large jet can easily be 50 yards long and all you have are heads to look at. It can be done.

    Think any active shooter scenario. A school for instance. Fifty yards can become awfully close.
    I wanted to add a comment, specifically in relation to what I bolded in Hotgun's post. A COM shot is not necessarily a shot to the center of the chest cavity. It really is the center of the largest mass of the target that you can see. Hence if all you see of the BG is a leg, than the thigh is the COM, and so on. Outside of work training with a rifle, I don't train to do 50m headshots. The adrenaline will be going full tilt, you may well be out of breath from running to cover, and trying to line up that head shot with pistol sights very well could give you tunnel vision, which can be a lethal thing in a gunfight. Actually outside of work I don't usually shoot at silhouette targets, since the odds of seeing that perfect of a target are extremely rare, IMHO.

    Could there be a defensive scenario in which you engage a BG at 50m in the civilian world, I think so, especially in an active shooter situation (obviously not in a mugging though). But my experience tells me that in that scenario, you will be trying to hit the biggest part of the BG that you can see, regardless of if it is his head or his big toe, in order to gain an advantage.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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  9. #54
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    I also do not do Head Shots at 50 yards with any gun I own. Let the hot shots take the shot. When it comes into my venue then I will take care of it...
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by carguy2244 View Post
    I'd rather have a rifle too.
    The ability to make a 50 yard shot expands the circle of control, whether it be a hostage situation or to keep an aggressor away from a person you're charged to protect.
    To make a point, a parent takes 2 children to the park. The younger child (3) is on the swing, the parent is pushing the swing. The older child (5), is on the jungle gym, 50 yards away. A stranger who initially appears to be another parent, grabs the older child, the parent sees it, and the child breaks away. This is a momentary separation, as the assailant is only feet from the child, and the parent is still 50 yards away, as this transpires in the blink of an eye. The ability to make a shot that would prevent a child from being snatched seems like good enough reason to train at that distance.
    Iceman...???
    This is more like an argument about being 50 yards away from your SMALL CHILD in a public park alone....
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  11. #56
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Man View Post

    Marksmanship is a skill, training is preparing yourself for the unexpected. The realm of marksmanship crosses the realm of self defence, but they are far from the same thing. I practice my marksmanship with a 300 Winchester Magnum at extreme ranges for the sake of ego. To say that I was training to take a deer at 800 yards would be a laugh. In reality, much of that distance should be closed before firing. Could I make an 800 yard shot on a deer? Maybe, but it would be a poor descision. Self defence is not a sport, marksmanship is. Getting a dinger in the next township is something to be proud of, wounding deer and loosing them is poor sportsmanship, and attempting a head shot on a human at 50 yards is most likely criminal.

    .
    If making long distance shots in training makes your short distance self defense shooting even more accurate and easy how is it not beneficial to train at longer distances?
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  12. #57
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    I have enjoyed stretching my pistols to 50 yards, my 1911 and my 22 I can hit some persona sized target but they are cardboard, I wouldn't say I practice such things but I am trying to learn more and increase my ability. Shooting for me is like golf, I am usually playing the course and my best scores.

    I actually read an article yesterday (Mas Ayoob)about an officer who wounded (lower back and side) and then captured a suspect (known armed & violent offender) in the 80's. The shot from a SMith revolver, 4" barrel, 357 158 grain, @ 173 yards at a moving target! WOW is all I could say. The bullet actually dropped more than expected and if it had been the 125 grain load this officer (who was the armorer) wanted it would have likely hit him in the center of back.

  13. #58
    Member Array Nikolai's Avatar
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    Practicing pistols at 50 yards isn't something I do very often. If I'm having a bit of fun, maybe I'll do it, but if I'm dealing with a BG from 50 yards, I obey rule #1: cardio.

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Man View Post
    The word "training" says that you are preparing yourself for a real world situation. If you are "training", it tells me that you are anticipating the need to take a head shot at 50 yards. There is a big difference between training and playing with your gun. You sir, are playing with your gun. There is nothing wrong with playing with guns, it is fun. I play with mine all the time. I do not pretend that playing with my gun is making me some sort of super CIA sleeper agent though, it is just for fun. If you are "training" to take a 50 yard head shot, you are "training" to spent the rest of you life in prison.

    You better check you ballistics tables, most pistol rounds only have a muzze of around 1000 ft per second.
    Don't judge the world by your own lower standards.

    Further, given that not 2 miles from where I am typing this post we had a guy go off the deep end with a 7.62x39mm rifle - so I think your blanket statement on the lack of necessity over long distance shooting in self defense is a bit...

    Over reaching?
    Arrogant?
    Ignorant?

    It's real easy to say that a problem at 150 feet isn't your problem - right until it is your problem, and you need to deal with it, with what you have on hand.

  15. #60
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    Draw from concealment, 2 to the chest, 1 to the head, against the clock. Draw from concealment, 2 to the head, against the clock. Do we miss? Absolutely. But we continually improve. We each train those 2 protocols from 3 feet to 50 yards, at least 100 times a week.
    Hand gun cartridges are underpowered, and COM shots are unreliable as stoppers. The best logic is a head shot. Why do you see COM recommended so often? Because most people won't train diligently enough to make reliable head shots. But everybody should train that way, and training at distance is the best way become more accurate. Why train to defend yourself, only to have the defensive tactic fail?

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