Reload Ability

Reload Ability

This is a discussion on Reload Ability within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Having noticed threads on how many rounds people carry and how they carry spare mags, it appears that many people feel that extra mags/rounds are ...

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Thread: Reload Ability

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Reload Ability

    Having noticed threads on how many rounds people carry and how they carry spare mags, it appears that many people feel that extra mags/rounds are a good idea. There seems to be a variety of methods for carrying spare mags and ammo.

    On that basis I pose the following questions:

    1. Do you feel that reload speed is important ?

    2. What is an acceptable slide lock or last round (revolver) to ready to fire reload time, still or moving ?

    1.0 seconds
    1.5 seconds
    2.0 seconds
    2.5 seconds
    3.0 seconds
    greater then 3.0 seconds

    * specify if for a revolver

    3. Can you achieve that time with your edc atire/rig ?


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array WhoWeBePart1's Avatar
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    If I have to reload in a real life situation I know I'm in deep and the last thing I'm going to think about is how fast can I release a magazine and insert another.

    It is just something that is not going to be on my mind. You can drill and practice and do it over and over and over all day long but till the real world day comes along you have no clue what is going to happen.

    I do not practice seconds. I practice doing things the proper way each and every time. I'd rather take it slow and smooth than fast and fumble.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoWeBePart1 View Post
    If I have to reload in a real life situation I know I'm in deep and the last thing I'm going to think about is how fast can I release a magazine and insert another.

    It is just something that is not going to be on my mind. You can drill and practice and do it over and over and over all day long but till the real world day comes along you have no clue what is going to happen.

    I do not practice seconds. I practice doing things the proper way each and every time. I'd rather take it slow and smooth than fast and fumble.
    Best answer; until you are in a situation where on a scale of 1-10 the pucker factor hits 15 you really don’t know how you will react. The only thing you can do is practice until muscle memory and reactions are ingrained to the point that that no conscious thought is necessary and your body just know what has to be done.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    While no one can know for sure how they will perform in a real situation, many train and practice to improve their capability. They do this in the hope of improving how they will perform in a real situation.

    I see the clock that same way as I see a target. Its purpose is to establish a baseline of capability and measure improvement against that baseline. The numbers in this case were arbitrary and merely for easy catagorization.

    Aaccuracy is important and is measured with a target. So is speed and the only way I know to measure it is by the clock.

    It is amazing what a poor judge of time people are.

  5. #5
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    I know for work we always strived for under 2 seconds from when our mags ran dry to slapping the "paddle" on the slide of our M-16's and re-engaging. That is pulling a fresh mag out of a pouch on our bod armor, and with either a round still in the chamber or from a dry mag (a round still in the chamber obviously makes it faster).

    As far as in civilian life, I have never really timed my reloads. I work on them, but it is mostly just to build muscle memory (one reason to always keep your reloads in the same spot regardless of weapon, and carry them in a way that they can't change positions), and has never really been tested for speed. I'm going to have to work on it I guess.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  6. #6
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    In the last few years all of the Police around here have pretty much augmented their training with "dynamic shooting" which is a good thing.
    They'll still do the 25 yard shoots with the B27, but all that teaches you is to hit a target that is not moving and not shooting back.

    The dynamic training is much better training and much better for police work because that is what you will encounter when things go south.

    This includes shooting to slide lock, or combat reloads, or doing tactical reloads. At first, many officers had problems with it, when going against the clock, they would drop their mags or fumble them in some way as to fail that part of the time requirements. With continued practice they improve.
    This also includes shooting from cover, prone, underneath vehicles, over vehicles, through windshields and shooting on the move. Its definitely more practical and more prone to keeping one alive. Shooting from cover is really stressed as is shooting and reloading.

    I've shot enough over the years at various clubs that I don't even think about it. When I go to slide lock, my second mag is often in the gun before the first one hits the ground, but that's pretty typical for club shooters...of course this is open carry.

    Concealed carry is a whole nuther ball game. While we do practice it, it isn't enough. You must practice clearing the garment and bringing the gun on target. While I have practiced it alot, to me it seems really slow as compared to open carry.

    For open carry, I would guess that 1 to 1.5 is acceptable.
    For concealed carry I would say that 2 to 3 seconds is not uncommon.

    Having seen alot of permit holders draw and fire from a concealed position, I have seen precious few that could do it with any amount of speed or fumbling. In my opinion, few people practice it as they should which is a shame really, because a defensive shooter is shooting mostly from reaction which is already behind the curve.
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    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    At work from lock back to reload to 3 round burst on target COM around 2.0 flat. Off duty it depends....I'm a big fan of the NY reload so that's kind of cheating
    Colt New Agent, Dan Wesson V-Bob, Glock 19,20SF, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30SF, 36, Kahr P380 w/CT, PM9, PM45, CW9(SOLD), Kel-Tec P32, P3AT, PF9(SOLD), Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II, Stainless Pro TLE/RL II (SOLD), Rohrbaugh R9s, Ruger LCP w/CT, LCR, SP101 S&W J-Frame 638 w/CT, M&P 340 w/CT, Walther PPK/S

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    Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Speed reloads & re-aquiring target should be under 2 seconds from concealment.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIABLO9489 View Post
    At work from lock back to reload to 3 round burst on target COM around 2.0 flat. Off duty it depends....I'm a big fan of the NY reload so that's kind of cheating
    It's not cheating if you win

    Don't play fair, because the bad guys don't.

    Reload speed is important as it gets the gun back in the fight. However, it does come from practice. You should be able to reload while keeping your eyes on the target/threat...not get tunnelvision on focusing on the gun/reload. I recommend using mucho practice with a cleared and empty gun and empty mags.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    It's not cheating if you win

    Don't play fair, because the bad guys don't.

    Reload speed is important as it gets the gun back in the fight. However, it does come from practice. You should be able to reload while keeping your eyes on the target/threat...not get tunnelvision on focusing on the gun/reload. I recommend using mucho practice with a cleared and empty gun and empty mags.
    Absolutely.

    Just as important as speed, IMHO, is the ability to reload the gun while keeping the gun up between yourself and the threat, and being able to do it without looking at it.

    As noted, this comes from much practice with empty gun and mags.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
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    Member Array carguy2244's Avatar
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    At our 2 ranges, we shoot 6 - 8 combat/ccw shots monthly. Fast Reload and target Re-engagement is imperative in order to be competitive (we have no Jerry Miculek type speed demons here, so don't get the wrong idea). R to R with my my Glock is in the high 1s. With my M&P R8, and moon clips, low 3s. Kahr PM9, low 2s.
    These numbers are occasionally good enough to place. My son is much faster, so he places much higher. Speaks volumes about R to R. And with people watching and the clock ticking for a contest you've been preparing for, the pucker factor is up there.

  12. #12
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    If someone is looking to improve their reloads for competition, as an IDPA SO I'd like to add a note.

    Be aware of where your muzzle is pointed during the entire reload.

    Even if you're not interested in competition, but just practicing for defensive use, your gun belongs between you and the threat, pointed toward the threat. You see a lot of new shooters looking down at the gun, turning it every which way during reloads....
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    While a quick reload may be important if you miss alot, the best thing to do is seek cover first, and only fire when you have a high percentage shot. Then you are forcing your opponent to reload, and rely on skills he probably doesn't have.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Having noticed threads on how many rounds people carry and how they carry spare mags, it appears that many people feel that extra mags/rounds are a good idea. There seems to be a variety of methods for carrying spare mags and ammo.

    On that basis I pose the following questions:

    1. Do you feel that reload speed is important ?

    2. What is an acceptable slide lock or last round (revolver) to ready to fire reload time, still or moving ?

    1.0 seconds
    1.5 seconds
    2.0 seconds
    2.5 seconds
    3.0 seconds
    greater then 3.0 seconds

    * specify if for a revolver

    3. Can you achieve that time with your edc atire/rig ?
    Yes I do practice with my EDC and concealment attire. Reload speed is important to the point that you get back into the fight. I have not/do not time my reloads. I concentrate on keeping my weapon pointed toward my target/threat and moving off the X. It is very important NOT to remain stationary during a reload. That is a point in time that you are VERY VULNERABLE. JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    practice as long as you can and hope your muscle memory gets you through it
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