Drawing Against The Drop (DATD) - Page 7

Drawing Against The Drop (DATD)

This is a discussion on Drawing Against The Drop (DATD) within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Gloves, thanks for sharing this technique. It is my opinion that these are the important things that make a difference. This type of thing goes ...

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  1. #91
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Gloves, thanks for sharing this technique. It is my opinion that these are the important things that make a difference. This type of thing goes hand in hand with the FBI's study of the shorting out effect that refusing to comply with orders has on the felons brain, which gives you a window of oppurtunity to act before they can react.


  2. #92
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    All about OODA disruption. If you bump him back to Observe he'll have to cycle thru Orient and Decide before he can Act. You use that time to execute your plan and alot can be done before he can react to it...
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  3. #93
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Yes. Good stuff here. Worthy of close study. I used to study with another Master after class was over. We'd lock the door pull the shades, and bring out the handguns. It was quite a learning experience for two experienced martial artists to introduce a new element. Some techniques transferred very well, others not so well.
    Timing is critical as is not telegraphing moves. I have to agree that if my assailant was stupid enough to get within striking distance I would probably choose not to waste time with my weapon. Of course, the first casualty of battle is the plan!

    I like the concept of indexing to prevent shooting yourself. I well-thought-out technique-thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.

  4. #94
    Member Array nmbr5ml's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    I know this is an old thread, but since it was referenced recently here Concealed Carry during robbery at gunpoint I wanted to revive it to point out something that wasn't mentioned.

    There was some question about the need to close in, blade and CONTROL the gun hand of the BG. While the Tom Cruise scene posted shows what look like pretty sound tactics, the point being missed is that those 2 shots applied to the BG were immediately effective. He fell backward and dropped his weapon. He did this because it's a movie and that's what he was supposed to do. In real life, with handguns, there is just as strong a chance that he would turn and run or worse, continue to try to get his gun back in the fight and you wouldn't even know that you'd hit him. This is how it works in real life folks. There are no guarantees of what a person will do. There are too many variables. For myself, when practicing this particular scenario, I will make every effort to control the gun hand and blade my stance, IOT minimize my chances of being shot.

    Guantes, Thank you for posting this and patiently answering people's questions. This is very informative and it's hard to find such credible assistance surfing the web.
    Secret Spuk likes this.

  5. #95
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    Another reference to this thread and I have a comment.
    Having some basic hand to hand training, if one has "control" of the assailants arm as in the video, dont let go. Follow him to the ground as mentioned in the original lesson. The reversal of the block eliminates the need to index, opens the bg as a larger target and allows shooting from the hip. The bg should react by pulling away while you are firing allowing you to ground, mount and then disarm the bg. If you zipper him with three or four shots he will undoubtedly go straight to the ground.
    We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.

  6. #96
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    When I was a range office I would often check out the guys who have never shot in a competition before. From what I saw I can safely say that about 90% or more of gun owners cannot draw under the mild stress of someone timing or watching them. Unless someone has real world experience I would not recommend drawing on someone with a gun on you unless you are pretty sure that they are going to shoot you and even then I would try distraction or whatever I can to gain distance or cover to give me more time to draw my gun. I always carry a pocket gun, even if it is just an NAA, when I carry on my belt. That allows me to reach for a wallet or just casually stand there with my hand in my pocket ready to draw and shoot, or in the case of my snub nose, shoot through my pocket if I have to. With only about 1% of gun owners paying for professional training, I would think the odds of prevailing in a situation as you describe to be very low for most. In my hayday I could draw and hit 5 targets in under 2 seconds so it is possible if you train constantly or train and compete a lot. Now, I am happy if I can draw and hit one target in 3 seconds so I rely on deception and misdirection. As a former magician I know how to get people to look away. They cannot help themselves if you do it right. :)
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  7. #97
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    Great post, thanks for referencing this topic. This added some other important ideas to my practices on this topic. Plus I learned some of the acronyms and buzz words too. After seeing the movie collateral you know I had to head down to the gun club and try that. I did learn the rotation of your body greatly improves the ability to clear your concealment effortlessly although sweeping across and striking their wrist brings that weak hand over near the muzzle which requires a little focus to prevent an accident. Bad thing about this move, if you miss their gun or wrist, you're screwed. I have to question if stepping offline is not a better approach but I was just having fun. This move is great for practicing your draw.
    PART 2 of 3 Collateral Drill just Ruger LCR22 - YouTube

    In one of Ayoobs combat books I worked out a couple of scenarios where you close and control their weapon, press them against the wall then draw. I like the one where you grab the bad guys left rear armpit spinning them clockwise and then draw and shoot them in the back/side of the head. Even my small wife can pull this move on me. She switches hands and rides me around like a bronco and works like a charm. I would have to fire through my own body to hit her. And I practice this against my burly son who is 25 years younger and strong as an ox, fast as lightning.

    Anyway I'll bookmark and read this topic and OP many times.

  8. #98
    Member Array Bulldog7972s's Avatar
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    We had an off duty policeman employ this tactic against three armed offenders who tried to rob him as he was fueling his car in a gas station. He pulled his weapon and shot and killed the one who had his weapon pointed at him. The other two fled and were apprehended later.
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  9. #99
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    Gloves....great stuff!

    DATD is one of those techniques that is simple to learn but hard to explain in the written medium. I had read about it for years and when I saw it demostrated a light went off because we tend to over think the process. Gloves and I spent some time working on a lefty version of this technique and beat the tar out of Steve in the process. All in good fun...Gloves you heading my way anytime soon?
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  10. #100
    Senior Member Array Matthew Temkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog7972s View Post
    We had an off duty policeman employ this tactic against three armed offenders who tried to rob him as he was fueling his car in a gas station. He pulled his weapon and shot and killed the one who had his weapon pointed at him. The other two fled and were apprehended later.
    I saw that posted on YouTube.
    Hope your guy is doing OK.
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  11. #101
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    so you are going to PARRY and draw? :-) right, dude. Well, good luck with that. If you can slap aside his arm, it would be MUCH faster easier to use the other hand to rack his face, jump back and THEN draw. an arm move is .10 second, a ccw draw, at least 5x slower than that, and 10x slower for most people. If I'm within 1 step and an outstretched arm, i'll use hand to hand. just cause you shoot him does not mean that he can't shoot back (many times) and at such ranges, he'sl pretty likely to hit you, too.

  12. #102
    Ex Member Array quix's Avatar
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    I saw that. the cop came within 1" of missing the guy (head shot) and would have gotten shot if he had. Pure luck. what he should have had was a gun in that pocket. let them THINK that you're reaching for your wallet, and then "surprise". Much, much faster and safer than a ccw belt rig draw.

  13. #103
    Ex Member Array quix's Avatar
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    some people can decide, react and shoot you in 1/2 second. :-) You aint that fast with a ccw belt rig. Nobody is or ever was. So it better be a deal where you're going to be shot anyway and you're just taking the lesser of two evils.

  14. #104
    JD
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    Quix,

    Tom Givens down @ Range Masters in Memphis has 60+ ? (Need to reverify)students that have successfully drawn and shot thier aggressors all while the aggressor had gun in hand. It's not that outlandish. I would also strongly urge you to tone it down a notch regarding how you address the members here. Especially if in your previous posts you are addressing Guantes. Unlike yourself he is of a known quantity on this forum and has met with other persons on this forum that are if a known quantity and has shown his techniques to be effective.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by quix View Post
    so you are going to PARRY and draw? :-) right, dude. Well, good luck with that. If you can slap aside his arm, it would be MUCH faster easier to use the other hand to rack his face, jump back and THEN draw. an arm move is .10 second, a ccw draw, at least 5x slower than that, and 10x slower for most people. If I'm within 1 step and an outstretched arm, i'll use hand to hand. just cause you shoot him does not mean that he can't shoot back (many times) and at such ranges, he'sl pretty likely to hit you, too.
    It's worked in the real world. Guess that would suggest it's a viable skill to have in that possibles bag. Besides the fact you don't know anything about the person who used it and then refined it, he's got a draw stroke that most will never obtain [ for speed ].

    I know and have trained with gloves, he's been a guest co-instructor with 7677, Matt Temkin and I here in Az back around 08. The problem with your post is, you don't know what you don't know. He's authorized several of us to train others in the finer points of the skill, it works, plain and simple.
    gatorbait51 and tcox4freedom like this.
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