The Modern Edged Weapon Threat

This is a discussion on The Modern Edged Weapon Threat within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.itstactical.com/2010/09/2...eapons-threat/...

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Thread: The Modern Edged Weapon Threat

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Very well written piece. Thanks for sharing it.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    There is a whole different school of practice in that field, not easy to master, and in many ways far more deadly than a gun.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    Very nicely written, and that advice about getting out of the center and to your left, attackers right, makes lots of sense, as does the part about where to put the attacker's head and what to do with it.

    Everyone needs to remember that where the head goes the body goes.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Move to the outside Since 93% of people are right handed it is best to move to your left, their right. Get out from between their arms.
    Nice article, but I do have to disagree a little bit with this part. All else being equal I would agree, get to the outside. The rub, of course, is that all else is never equal. Facing a right handed adversary means that the knife is probably coming at you from your left (his right side). Backhand slashes are possible, of course, but they're going to be far less common than forehand slashes and stabs. This means that getting to the outside is going to require getting past his knife. That's certainly not impossible for someone who knows what they're doing, but passing the knife without getting cut is a bit trickier than going the other way. I think in general I would lean towards blocking the attack and move towards the BG's support side, rather than parrying and moving towards his strong side.
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    Member Array Threadbare's Avatar
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    Good stuff.

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    Senior Member Array mercop's Avatar
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    Glad some find it useful

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Nice article, but I do have to disagree a little bit with this part. All else being equal I would agree, get to the outside. The rub, of course, is that all else is never equal. Facing a right handed adversary means that the knife is probably coming at you from your left (his right side). Backhand slashes are possible, of course, but they're going to be far less common than forehand slashes and stabs. This means that getting to the outside is going to require getting past his knife. That's certainly not impossible for someone who knows what they're doing, but passing the knife without getting cut is a bit trickier than going the other way. I think in general I would lean towards blocking the attack and move towards the BG's support side, rather than parrying and moving towards his strong side.
    Bolded:
    Attempting to block the knife is the surest way to get cut.

    Underlined:
    Going to the inside of the attacker on purpose greatly increases your chances of being gutted.
    The mind is the limiting factor

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  10. #9
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Maybe ...maybe not.

    Depends on what your level of skill is.


    Going to the inside and then just standing there...yeah not so good.

    Going to the inside and SMASHING his face in as you block or parry with your left hand while moving to your 1 o'clock ...not so much likely to get gutted....unless you stop and gawk at your handy work.
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  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel Hand Luke View Post
    Maybe ...maybe not.

    Depends on what your level of skill is.


    Going to the inside and then just standing there...yeah not so good.

    Going to the inside and SMASHING his face in as you block or parry with your left hand while moving to your 1 o'clock ...not so much likely to get gutted....unless you stop and gawk at your handy work.
    Presumes you can smash his face, presumes you have control of his weapon arm/hand [ both of which are nothing to be relied on ]. Sometimes you'll not have a choice, but given a choice, you would be wise to take them to the outside, it's much safer than taking the inside line. BE stated his preference to go inside, and that is the more dangerous choice any time you have the choice.

    Presuming a smash to the face will keep you from being cut is very dangerous whether you have the skills you think you have or not. You control the blade arm/hand or you will take damage. It's easier to control the attackers blade hand from the outside than the inside, no matter who you are or what you think you know.

    Your point that it depends on your skill level doesn't address the potential skill level of the aggressor which you can't possibly know. Erring on the side of caution is always preferable. Unarmed against a blade, better keep that core protected or you'll likely get gutted for your errors in judgment [ hard to keep your core protected when you're parrying or blocking ].

    Blocking the knife doesn't work in the real world, it only gives your opponent more targets of opportunity.

    Brownie
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  12. #11
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Really .

    You can say without a doubt that it DOES NOT WORK?

    100% of the time?

    Ever?

    You might want to ask Southnarc or Tom Sotis about that.....

    Again. We do not strike/block and stand still.....we strike/block and MOVE to make space and access our gun (or knife..or just run like hell).

    Of course we can "what if" an imaginary scenario to make any point you want to.

    But I guess you're right.....I'm sure you know more about knife work than Tom Sotis, Southnarc and Mike Janich all put together...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel Hand Luke View Post
    Really .

    You can say without a doubt that it DOES NOT WORK?

    100% of the time?

    Ever?

    You might want to ask Southnarc or Tom Sotis about that.....

    Again. We do not strike/block and stand still.....we strike/block and MOVE to make space and access our gun (or knife..or just run like hell).

    Of course we can "what if" an imaginary scenario to make any point you want to.

    But I guess you're right.....I'm sure you know more about knife work than Tom Sotis, Southnarc and Mike Janich all put together...
    Trained with Janich for 8 days over two events, I know what Mike trains in [ how many training days do you have with Mike? ]. Though I haven't trained with SouthNarc, I'm aware of his training regimen with the blade edge in/reverse grip [ and that's not how the majority of people use a blade so it's quite specific to that form of blade work ]. As to Sotis, well, lets just say he doesn't impress me at all and leave it at that.


    You can say without a doubt that it DOES NOT WORK?

    Did I say that?, or even allude to that? I don't see anywhere in my posts today that I suggested anything of the kind. What I said was "Presuming a smash to the face will keep you from being cut is very dangerous whether you have the skills you think you have or not. You control the blade arm/hand or you will take damage. It's easier to control the attackers blade hand from the outside than the inside, no matter who you are or what you think you know."

    Anything CAN work, yet, to presume that you'll be able to smash someone in the face and stop their arm/hand from further aggression at the same time is not erring on the side of caution.

    But I guess you're right.....I'm sure you know more about knife work than Tom Sotis, Southnarc and Mike Janich all put
    together.


    I'm sure I know quite a bit more about blade work than you're aware of, having trained for near a decade with Keating and then being a defensive edged weapons instructor for S+W's training division for 3 years training LEO's across the USA as well as training mils/LEO's privately to include several HS/LD swat units.

    You're background and experience with blades is what?
    The mind is the limiting factor

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  14. #13
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    And I did not say it was a "cure all" for every situation. You said plainly ....

    Bolded:
    Attempting to block the knife is the surest way to get cut.

    Underlined:
    Going to the inside of the attacker on purpose greatly increases your chances of being gutted.


    I said IT DEPENDS. Might you get cut? It is a knife attack not a tea party. But you simply cannot say with any credibility that it "DOES NOT WORK IN THE REAL WORLD" when in fact it MIGHT work...depending on circumstances.

    And you say...."Anything CAN work, yet, to presume that you'll be able to smash someone in the face and stop their arm/hand from further aggression at the same time is not erring on the side of caution. "

    The blocking arm is what stops the knife arm...the striking hand is what impedes the body forward momentum. You are not just relying on the strike to stop the knife. It is a combination of block and strike at the same time.

    And that statement about Sotis tells us all we need to know about your perspective on this........and I'll leave it at that.
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    Yup, Tom's not anywhere near being a Janich, Keating or Dionaldo. You brought up his name, not I. If you knew the back story about him back in Mass in the 90's you'd understand what I'm talking about, but then you obviously don't know what you don't know in this discussion

    And anyone who wants to block a blade, even in conjunction with simultaneous strikes is begging to be hit with the opponents blade. Perhaps you missed my statement about "erring on the side of caution". You don't take the lower probability of success as a course of action unless you want to increase your risks of being tagged.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  16. #15
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    20 Year old 2nd hand story is vaguely interesting...

    Present ability is far more interesting. Sotis is the real deal.

    But as usual Brownie knows everything.
    Randy Harris
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