Training question. Have you ever had a Negligent Discharge?

This is a discussion on Training question. Have you ever had a Negligent Discharge? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I wanted to try the custom trigger so I opened the cylinder, elevated the gun stroked the ejector rod dumping the rounds into my hand. ...

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Thread: Training question. Have you ever had a Negligent Discharge?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    I wanted to try the custom trigger so I opened the cylinder, elevated the gun stroked the ejector rod dumping the rounds into my hand.
    I then closed the cylinder and then dry fired the double action, wonderfully smooth.
    With proper revolver handling procedures, this kind of ND can be prevented. If your wheelgun fires 5, 6, 7 or 8 rounds, when you eject them you should know how many eject. Always watch for the hanging case - yes, with S&Ws it can be an occasional glitch.

    However, before dry-firing practice, you'd still open the cylinder and perform a visual inspection to verify the gun is unloaded. You build that step in automatically and do it every time regardless of what you think the status of the gun is. By making that a mandatory safety check, you accord with Rule 1 and prevent accidents of various sorts, including the one mentioned here.

    As a bonus, here's Mas Ayoob demonstrating the Stress Reload. I've ditched the CIA method in favor of this, for all the reasons Mas explains. In addition, because of how you hold the gun, you can spot a hanging case much easier this way.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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  3. #17
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    Yup you are right. Over the years I have learned to dump, count, look and count again before dry firing. I still prefer the FBI method it is just more familiar to me.
    The Pythons are put away so the only revolver I use anymore is the 642 on occasion.
    Thanks for the video added to the library.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Jackle1886's Avatar
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    +1 on always checking the cyclinder. I dump rounds, close cylinder, open cylinder and visually inspect to make sure it's empty. Always doubling checking costs me another 2 seconds, which I will glady give to save a ND.

    On auto's, I dump the mag FIRST, clear the chamber, and then double check the chamber.

    As far as my discharge, call it an accidental because I never pulled the trigger. Old Hawkins style muzzle loader. Loaded with a round ball and capped, end of season, went to unload. Dad and I stood side by side, pointed in a safe direction. Dad shoulders and fires, I being a lefty, go to cock the hammer. The hammer went completely rearward, CLICKED, I let go. BOOOOM, for some reason the hammer didn't stay, finger was not even close to the trigger. Yes it's an older gun, but it happens. Just glad it was pointed in a safe direction.

    Dad smiled and asked me what I learned.
    Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.

  5. #19
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    To me that is the most important thing. Did we learn from the event? and Will we ever repeat it?
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Went to a friend's house with wife to see his friend's revolver because I wanted my wife to get the "feel" of the revolver and its trigger pull. The revolver owner was long-time military and we all considered him our "expert" on advice. We were in my friend's kitchens and his friend "emptied" the revolver. My wife specifically asked if the revolver was unloaded and he answered in the affirmative and I specifically told my wife on picking up revolver to point it into the living room away from the three of us standing in kitchen. She dried fired the first time and the second trigger pull----yada yada yada. All three of us stood there absolutely dumbfounded in disbelief. To this day my wife says she can still hear ringing in her ears. I sure as heck learned something that day. I look at those cylinders in my 38 and look and feel in my 22 semi and make sure it is in open position and mag is removed (old Ruger stays in firing mode after mag is "apparently" emptied so I must manually open and secure)

  7. #21
    Member Array roalho's Avatar
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    Witnessed an ND this weekend at Defense Associates training class. It's quite concerning when doing non-firing drills to hear a loud "bang" from down the line somewhere. Didn't really surprise any of us though, the dude was old, bumbling, a bit cocky, and absolutely HORRIBLE with his handling skills.
    He literally jams the muzzle into his gut when clearing the chamber, his weak hand fingers and palm all over the muzzle, etc. He'd seem to unconsciously "pulse" pressure on the trigger when in ready position and between drills.
    I saw each of these "mistakes" a half dozen times or more myself in just the few drills I happened to be next to him. He didn't pass, needless to say. Scary shizz, no doubt.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
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    I believe that an AD or ND can happen to anyone. It just takes a momentary lapse of focus or a broken firearm.
    So far I have been fortunate enough that I have never experience either one with a firearm (Thanks Grand dad!). Now, if we start talking archery equipment……that’s a different story!! When I switched from fingers to a release, I had a heck of a time keeping my finger off the trigger during the draw.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Not yet. As others have said, practice the rules for emptying, aiming, and trigger control and you should be safe.

  10. #24
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    I had a VERY strange kind of ND which is actually quite funny (if a ND can be funny).

    I had pulled a tendon in my hand and couldn't handle anything more than a .22 for recoil but still wanted to go shooting.

    JD and I were shooting and the range and every now and then the trigger on our Browning Buckmark .22 would just stop working. You could pull the trigger again and again and again and it would just flop around and suddenly it would catch and fire.

    JD was in the lane next to me and every time I told him what was going on he said it was something I must be doing wrong. Of course every time HE tried it worked just fine.

    When he said, "Are you sure you're pulling the trigger all the way back?" I got SOOOOOOOO mad at him. I wanted to pistol whip him with the Browning. The idea that he thought I was too incompetent to know the difference between a gun error and not pulling the trigger back was maddeningly infuriating.

    Finally, in a string of fire the trigger wigged out on me again and I immediately stopped and yelled, "SEE! LOOK!" I was holding it rather loosely in my left hand with the barrel still pointed down range and demonstrating the faulty trigger. I was pulling the trigger, showing JD how it wasn't working when it "caught" and fired sending a round down range.

    I immediately felt so irresponsible. Sure, it was pointing down range in a safe direction but I was very angry and more concerned with proving I was right than being safe.

    I consider it a ND because of my state of mind. I didn't even think about making it safe or having him try it himself. I just went about pulling the trigger and going, "SEE! I'm not an idiot," and BANG... yeah.. I'm an idiot.

    It FINALLY did it to JD as well and he found some broken part upon taking the Browning apart. He promised never to doubt me again. Problem solved.

  11. #25
    Member Array Tye_Defender's Avatar
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    I had a ND just a couple years ago. Lucky for me, I'm the only one that knew it happened at the time. (Also, no injuries, but that was not luck on my part, that was following rule 1, gun pointed in a safe direction)

    Short story summarized: I go to a free, open range in the area. There is a very tired guy trying to sight in a rifle who has been there alone for 2+ hours and has developed a habit of firing 2 or 3 shots and then walking downrange to check. A guy with a very loud rifle next to me.Everyone starts firing. Guy sighting in his rifle gets up and starts walking downrange while everyone else is still firing. Someone yells "Cease Fire". I stop firing my pistol but don't take my finger off the trigger. Guy next to me fires his very loud rifle. In reflex, I pull the trigger on my pistol and send another round downrange.

    Because the rifle was so loud, I don't think anyone but me knew that I just fired another round. However, I knew that I did and I knew I did not mean to. I consider it a negligent discharge because I did not intend to fire but the gun functioned exactly as designed and fired when I pulled the trigger. I was practicing the rest of the rules, but it would have been bad if I had failed to have my pistol pointed in a safe direction.

    There are two things that I learned from the situation. 1) Be extra careful when you are tired. Best plan is to not go when you are tired, but if you want experience functioning under that kind of stress, have someone go with you who is not tired and can keep an eye on you the whole time. and 2) Never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire.

    I was involved in another ND a few years before that. It happened to another guy, who swore me to secrecy, so I won't tell the circumstance but I will tell you how I could have prevented it. Never hand a loaded gun to another person unless you absolutely have to, and if you absolutely have to, make sure they know it's loaded. Even if it is perfectly obvious to you that the gun is loaded and should be perfectly obvious to everyone else and you can't believe they wouldn't think it was loaded, still tell them that it is loaded. That one was mostly luck that nobody was injured. Violated a few rules with that one. I take partial responsibility, as you can tell.

  12. #26
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    I prefer to use "unintended discharge" and skip all the AD/ND controversy. And yes, I have. Thirty-some years I still feel stupid about it.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array swiftyjuan's Avatar
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    A little over 30 years ago, just after my first divorce, I moved into a mobile home on a ranch. The divorce was amicable, and I left my .45 with my wife to protect my son. I bought a Winchester Defender 12 gauge for defense in my new rural home. Of course, I spent the next couple of days learning how to operate, load, unload and care for the new toy. I decided to load all eight rounds, chamber one, and put in one more, giving me 9 total rounds.
    I chambered a round in preparation to load the 9th round, and the shotgun slipped; reflexively, I caught it, but my index finger hit the trigger. Believe me a 12 gauge going off in a single-wide trailer is LOUD! I always kept the gun pointed at a window, and the window consisted of 6 inch squares of glass in frames of wood; one 6 inch square was gone, and one of the wood beams supporting the sunshade outside had 8 holes in it. I was lucky, and replaced the glass the next day. That Winchester is loaded with 8 and sitting by my bed right now; I will chamber the first round if I need it, but I don't keep it "cocked-and-locked" anymore!
    Luckily, there was nothing but peach orchards outside, with no houses.
    John
    Assault is a behavior, not a device.

    "Don't never take no shortcuts." Patty Reed, Donner Party

    Lifetime NRA member

  14. #28
    Member Array marksz71's Avatar
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    ND While Deployed

    I am currently deployed to Iraq, and over the last 6 weeks, our unit has had two NDs. Both of them were due to complacency and not following proper clearing procedures.

    The first was next to me. I was in our weapons cleaning room, and an invidual same in and stood next to me (I was sitting at the table). I assumed he was going to sit and clean as well, and paid no attention. I heard him rack the slide, and two seconds later...BANG! He said, "you gotta be f'in kidding me"...nope, you messed up the clearing procedures. He was in a less secure area and he went to weapon status "amber" (magazine in, no round in chamber, M9 on safe). A couple things went wrong; he didn't go back to green upon leaving the less secure area, he didn't properly clear his weapon at a clearing barrel, and he simply didn't follow proper clearing procedures. When he racked the slide, he observed to round in chamber; however, he failed to drop the mag first and failed to check the mag well from the chamber side to ensure there was no feeding device. In other words when he racked the slide, he chambered a round. Of course he decided to do a "function check" as he put it, and that is when the gun went off. The bullet passed through the table and thankfully logded between the concrete floor and wall; it did not ricochet. The bullet impacted about 16 inches from my foot. I later dug the bullet out and intend to frame it as a reminder to follow proper clearing procedures.

    The second was similar, as far as what the individal failed to do. Went "amber", then when he cleared, he simply pulled the slide back, no round, then released, but forgot to drop the mag first. Later in his room, the weapon (M9) goes off, and the bullet passes through his wall, and into another room. BAD BAD BAD! The guy accross from him was in his room when the bullet passed through. HOLY CRAP...!

    Not to say it can't and will never happen to me as you all have shared your personal stories, but I am VERY careful when handling a weapon. I have been handling firearms since I was little, and I am also a licensed gun dealer. Even when I handle a NEW firearm out of the box; I handle as though it were loaded and I clear it before handling it. Another story...I received a used firearm through the mail, which was a transfer to one of my customers. It was a Sig .40, and when I received it; I assumed it was unloaded, but being smart; I always check. I pulled the slide back, and my heart dropped when a nice shiney HOT .40 cal HP flies out of the chamber. That firearm came accross the US HOT and ready to rock. I was so freak'n p*ssed! He not only jeapordized many people accross the states, but also my family. The guy got an ear full, of which he could have went to jail. He didnt' have much to say....

    Ok..that is a long first post. This is a great site, one of which I plan to frequent. Mark

  15. #29
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    Keep them coming guys every story will make someone think about what they do everyday.

    Mark send me a PM let me know where in the box you are at? Military procedures lead to a lot of ND's. Load it and leave it alone. Going from green to amber to red to fuchia to aqua and then wonder why a round gets missed just my opinion.
    Swifty I can't even imagine how loud that was LOL.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    The best safety procedure I ever saw in a gunshop happened when I was looking for a revolver and wanted my wife to appreciate the trigger pull. We were in a gunshop and the counterperson took a revolver out of showcase and, before handing it to my wife, he open cylinder and confirmed it empty and closed it. He stood there while my wife dry fired and when she handed it back to him, he opened the cylinder and confirmed it was empty and then returned it to the showcase. Everytime my firearm is handled by anyone or before my firearm is handled by anyone--even if they are standing right in front of me---I go thru the motion.

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