Ten Elements of Threat Focused Shooting

This is a discussion on Ten Elements of Threat Focused Shooting within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As you well know, DJ, by your own quote of him didn't mention the elbow into the gut, you were taught that as was Mr. ...

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Thread: Ten Elements of Threat Focused Shooting

  1. #46
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    As you well know, DJ, by your own quote of him didn't mention the elbow into the gut, you were taught that as was Mr. Temkin by me as Quick Kill hip, a variation taught by Lucky McDaniel and a seperate technique taught within the Threat Focused Training courses.

    From the Threat Focused Forum on 5/7/06 in discussion of the QK hip differences with EU/ED and FAS 1/4-1/2-3/4 hip:

    In FAS, the elbow is slapped on the side of the hip and the contact point is the side of the elbow only. It allows the elbow to "float" under recoil, hence it can be a problematic in this regard. One contact point.

    With QK hip, the elbow locked into the pocket in front of the hip bone, you have two contact points. The elbows point on the hip and the tricept/back of the arm touching the torso the full length of the upper arm. Thats a very stable platform once locked in. Not just two contact points, but the second contact points is the full length of the upper arm on the torso [ the bearing surface is huge compared to all others in this regard ].

    More bearing surface=more stability=being able to shoot faster without disruption or the resultant consequences of the groups opening up. Also, the elbow locked into the front of the hip stabilizes/reduces the elbow point moving anywhere under recoil except straight back into the "pocket". Thats why you, Roger and others have seen two rapid shots fired this way are about 1 inch apart and sometimes can be touching.



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    Last edited by AzQkr; July 19th, 2006 at 12:05 AM.
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  3. #47
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    And this quote from 7677 on 5/9/06 on TFF.

    EU/ED vs QK EU/ED

    Again, EU/ED is used for extreme close quarters dynamic combat and out to 5 yards, where as QK EU/ED is used when the distances open up outside of 3 yards and the shooter decides he is going to stand and deliver. Both techniques work in this area but the QK is more stable as the body turrets with the elbow locked in. This technique is great for multiple adversaries. In the end, it all comes down to tools in the toolbox and what fits the shooter best.


    In further support: My explanation of EU/ED on TFF in answer to anothers question on 2/2306

    In the EU/ED stroke, the point of the elbow moves straight down from it's highest position to slap, or come to rest just above the beltline at the 3 position. The elbow not moving away from the body and the forearm almost "sliding" along the side of the torso.

    And Dave James reply to the above explanantion on the same day was:

    brownie is spot on,, as I was taught

    Brownie
    Last edited by AzQkr; July 19th, 2006 at 12:31 AM.
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  4. #48
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    QK hip is a variation of EU/ED and uses the elbow locked into the pocket in the front of the hip. It's still elbow up, elbow down but the placement of the elbow is the difference between the two.

    If the elbow is brought to the front of the hip it is not pure EU/ED as confirmed by the person who brought it to the forefront in the quote above.

    Roger also supplied a link to the Shooting To Live title which is FAS oriented, in support of the EU/ED, the EU/ED is how one gets to FAS 1/2 hip, thereby connecting the two in his post.

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    Last edited by AzQkr; July 19th, 2006 at 01:03 AM.
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  5. #49
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    You have your source, I have mine

    They are the same source, to reiterate EU/ED and the explicit response from that source:

    In the EU/ED stroke, the point of the elbow moves straight down from it's highest position to slap, or come to rest just above the beltline at the 3 position. The elbow not moving away from the body and the forearm almost "sliding" along the side of the torso.

    And DJ's reply to the above explanantion on the same day was:

    brownie is spot on,, as I was taught


    Nowhere has the source of the information mentioned the elbow in front of the body or centerline. Your interpretation of "gut" is just that, an interpretation of the written text which, from the quoted source is incorrect. You have not trained with DJ, only interpreted the written words, and at that, incorrectly.

    The confirmation comes in the above underlined that the elbow is not in front of the body but at the side as in FAS 1/2 hip. The elbow in front of the hip and locked/mashed in is Quick Kill Hip.

    You trained in EU/ED and QK hip with myself. You understand the differences and that the ITFTS curriculum explicitly seperated the two by where the elbow was located and by name.

    Please do not use the QK hip technique using EU/ED with the elbow in front of the body as you were taught in the future. You know the differences between them as well as others who have had the training.

    In support of your knowledge between the two techniques, the following where we worked both EU/ED and QK hip, the difference being where the elbow is located.

    http://www.threatfocused.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57
    where you used EU/ED and your elbow at the side of the hip and I used QK EU/ED hip with the elbow locked into the front of the hip.

    Brownie
    Last edited by AzQkr; July 19th, 2006 at 02:38 AM.
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  6. #50
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    For the record....
    AZQK's hip shooting is different than the FAS 1/2 hip, A/K/A Body Point ( as termed by Col. Applegate)
    With Robins version, the elbow is locked in front of the hip, which puts the pistol further out.
    The gun is also canted with the left side facing up.
    With FAS the pistol is held much closer to the body without the cant, elbow pressed into the side and further back than with QK.
    I prefer the FAS method, since it feels more natural and keeps the gun further away from the bad guy , since hip shooting is for close range work.
    But I am sure others feel the exact opposite, so let the shooter decide.
    As to the term EU/ED....
    I first heard this term several years ago from Dave James, who learned it from Col. Askins.
    An excellent description for a wickedly fast drawstroke.
    Last edited by Matthew Temkin; July 19th, 2006 at 07:54 AM.

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    Please Note that I did a radical pruning job on this thread and then opened it back up.

    The Topic of the thread is:
    The Ten Elements Of Threat Focused Shooting.

    The Topic Is Not:
    Let's Debate The Qualifications Of Those Teaching The Ten Elements Of Threat Focused Shooting.

    All will just have to live with my rather quick and harsh & even possibly UNFAIR thread prune. Please try & deal with the way I pruned it. I did the best job I could with the little time that I had.

    This forum is not a Democracy ~ It is a Benevolent Dictatorship & the moderators do not have the time or the inclination to crosscheck the idiosyncrasies of individual instructor qualifications.

    Forum members who are interested in learning Threat Focused can PM the various instructors & judge their qualifications "one on one" VIA Private Mail or use the Telephone.

    It has been reported to me that some moderators have received complaints from various forum members concerning the undertones of bickering in this thread.

    Please feel free to continue but, stay on topic to the thread or Moderator Bud White will reclose the entire thread & send it to the Rogues Gallery.

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    This forum is not a Democracy ~ It is a Benevolent Dictatorship
    My favorite kind! Yea to the Mods!

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