July 13th, 2006 02:42 PM
July 13th, 2006 03:18 PM
I think tire, many of us are indeed both - and tho for descriptive purposes it is useful to separate them, I think with enough practice and experience, they roll into one - useage determined by circumstance - a fluid transition.
I certainly try to get folks to never place sole dependence on sights - even foresight - reminding them that where the barrel points what matters. My R9 has sights but for some while it was offered without - and for a small BUG I doubt the sights really matter much - certainly not at bad breath distances and a bit more.
For beginners, sight useage and control are essentials IMO to gaining proper accuracy and gun control - and weeding out the often found vices. That stage done then the desirable progression is to gain the muscle memory involved with all the gun's positions without actual sighting.
This starts from immediate post draw which we might say is close retention - and on upwards and thru until (if time allows) a sight aquisition might be made.
All the way up this progression ladder we should be able to gain adequate hits, including of course as would the case for early stages, one handed control.
So - I think you describe what many of us promulgate and hopefully can do - tho probably at different levels of skill depending on our background and training regimes.
Incidentally - IMO neither is ''best'' - partly because I feel they are mutually inclusive and also because there is a need to be proficient right thru from the draw to firing - whenever that stage might be - immediate or delayed.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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July 13th, 2006 04:50 PM
Well said P95.
Both are tools, learn them and use them as needed
July 13th, 2006 05:30 PM
In every simunition gunfight I was ever in, I'd have to say that I never totally realied on one. It all depends on distance and circumstance. I've done everything from aim at 5ft distance to point shoot at 30ft (supressive fire). That was an EXCELLENT post Tire Iron. +1 for everything you just said.
July 13th, 2006 07:01 PM
This is by far one of the best graphical demonstrations of the sight/distance function that I have ever seen. Kudos on the work. I agree that all of us must remain fluid and in transition when effectively hoping to get bullets on target, every time!
July 13th, 2006 07:23 PM
Very nice post Mr. Tire.....
that bottom pic looks very familiar to me, must be a "front sight" dominant shooter....
I try to perform all manner of drills, though so that i can perform in the dark as well as in the light though....
"Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.
"...be water, my friend."
July 13th, 2006 07:39 PM
Thanks for those nice pics.
I am primarily front sight shooter, but will do point shooting drills every time I go shoot. I believe that it is better to be accustomed to both types of shooting, as you never know when the situation will demand either/or, or both instantly.
Good post TireIron
July 13th, 2006 08:49 PM
Knowing both sighted fire and threat focused skills with a handgun is good. It's being well rounded in your skills.
Knowing when one needs to verify some sort of sight picture or doesn't have to, to solve the problem at hand, is paramount.
The distances either are used are unimportant in reality as to when you use one system or the other. Each shooter who has both skills will determine that for themselves based on their level of experience and training.
Last edited by AzQkr; July 14th, 2006 at 01:25 AM.
The mind is the limiting factor
Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor
July 14th, 2006 01:18 AM
July 14th, 2006 01:40 AM
The best shooters in the world use something very close to this. Check out Enos's work here, darn good aricle.
Yes, the very best handgunners in the world use target focus and sight focus fluidly, when the situation dictates the response.
July 14th, 2006 08:10 AM
My impression was that it seemed very similar to Brian Enos' five types of focus as well. I prefer Brian's explanation as it does not ascribe a sighting method to a particular range.
Nice pictures! They definitely enhance your explanation, Tire Iron.
July 14th, 2006 11:47 AM
Thanks for all the posts and the kind words!
July 14th, 2006 12:05 PM
I was originally going to post that I would go with the sights.
While that may be true, there is a lot more going on here than that particular simple, yes-no question.
It's going to depend on the range and circumstancs.
Great post, Tire Iron!
July 17th, 2006 09:47 AM
Sights or no-sights...both, in my opinion, make sense.
My formal handgun training is limited to some classes taught by a former Chicago PD instructor and FAS style combat shooting that I have learned on my own.
For those who may not know, FSA is Fairbairn, Sykes, and Applegate and, yes, I am a Point-Shooter. Now before you all draw any conclusions let me state what PS’ing is:
- Point shooting is an adjunct to, not substitute for, sighted fire.
- Point shooting IS aimed fire.
- One can quickly gain knowledge of Point-Shooting and the time and money invested in maintaining these skills are much lower. Let us face it; even police do not train for a living only professional instructors do.
- It is all-inclusive and depends mainly on the distance involved. Therefore, it is not “hip shooting” as some would believe.
Point Shooting is a very misleading term. To the best on my knowledge, sighted fire and two-handed shooting was always taught in PS'ing. It all depends on the distance involved.
For an first-rate explanation of this read 7677’s The Sight Continuum
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