The best solutions to pistol malfunctions

This is a discussion on The best solutions to pistol malfunctions within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a dump pouch on my gear for mags, I was originally trained on the M16, AR type rifle as a sea cadet in ...

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Thread: The best solutions to pistol malfunctions

  1. #61
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    I have a dump pouch on my gear for mags, I was originally trained on the M16, AR type rifle as a sea cadet in high school and now I am moving to the AK platform. Most of the time we got dropped in training if we lost a mag. What sense is it to train to drop and lose a 30 dollar magazine when resupply will probably be loose rounds in a box or on the ground. Thats why in my SHTF bag I have mags loaded and a few hundred rounds of spare ammo. When i pull a mag from a rifle or pistol, the mag goes down to my side in the dump pouch then as i come back up i grab a fresh mag. Its very easy to do quickly without looking down with practice. I have not practiced anywhere near enough to perfect this but im willing to bet if a guy who just shoots for fun and practices this to the point of making it easy to do, all professional riflemen and amateur riflemen can do the same thing. However in most SD situations for a civilian it is easier, and quicker to just dump the mag. The law of averages states you will not need a reload but in civilian form its easier and faster to drop and load than drop stow and load. especially in plainclothes without a tac vest
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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  3. #62
    Member Array cerakoter's Avatar
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    I know that guys will say they have years of "feeling the gun" and recognizing this and that.
    I'm with Gabe on the method posted in the OP (would help if he listed the opposing method as I can't think of one that makes sense) and use it myself, but I would not dismiss the ability to "diagnose" the issue as one that is adding time or should (even can) be trained out of a shooter.

    People look at the gun when they notice it's not going bang anymore. Sometimes that look changes your reaction to the issue without adding time and can even make re-functioning faster than a "non-diagnostic" approach. Seeing a stovepipe and doing a RB verses a TRB is the most common I can think of.

    Also, if you shoot a lot and do "feel the gun" you're smart enough to realize that you are mid-mag and the issue is likely not that your mag-catch has released it when you have shot the same gun for 100K+ rounds and never had it happen before.

    Your past experience with the weapon is going to influence your "automated trouble shooting" and you should embrace it if it's good experience, if not, why are you still shooting a system that lets you down?

  4. #63
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    LMAO...
    Tell you what Roger, anytime you want to compare skill level or training resume's... I'm your Huckleberry.
    Original line.

    Wasn't that originally used by Doc Holiday to challenge Johnny Ringo to a gunfight?

  5. #64
    Member Array Gabe Suarez's Avatar
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    The OP was about pistols with a little bleed over onto rifles. When we teach classes, we do not water down the content for "the average civilian". To the contrary, we have been told by US Mil guys that what we teach is far superior to what they got in training. So while we teach with a focus to the lone operator, we teach a member of 5th Group the same as we teach a barber.

    In the sense of rifles, if I was mimited to teaching an "Average Civilian Defensive Rifle" I wouldn't do it. It would be the most boring and dry class in the world. A rifle is not for 'defending yourself", although it can be pressed into service for that. The rifle is for forcing your enemies to do as you want either by threat or by eliminating them. It is a military weapon and hat is how we teach it. We teach the entire and complete art of the combat rifle from CQB to fire ande maneuver and everything in between. Anyone who wants to limit thei learning to "average civilian" please do not come to my class as you will be totally overwhelmed.

    OTOH, if you want to learn everything there is about the topic, without a badge or a military ID, I tyhink I can point you in the right direction.

  6. #65
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    And for anyone searching for that right direction.........http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...d.php?t=118249
    Randy Harris
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Master Class IDPA SSP

    TRAIN with me....http://www.suarezinternationalstore....px?find=harris

  7. #66
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    This debate comes down to perspective and focus. Some people focus on being better inside of a game and that is all good when the training is kept in context. Some people are focused on fighting. Suarez Internationals focus is on winning gunfight so we have to break away from the square range dogma and focus on skills and pattern recognition that will make you the very best you can be when somebody is trying to kill you.

    When this is done.....score, ranking, embossed emblems, and coins mean nothing.........it is all about life and death.

    A fight is going to be what the fight is going to be. Your pet technique may not fit into that situation. That is why you need to look past the square range mentality where the bullets only travel in one direction, where an incorrectly ingrained pattern will not cost you your life.

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez View Post
    The OP was about pistols with a little bleed over onto rifles. When we teach classes, we do not water down the content for "the average civilian". To the contrary, we have been told by US Mil guys that what we teach is far superior to what they got in training. So while we teach with a focus to the lone operator, we teach a member of 5th Group the same as we teach a barber.

    In the sense of rifles, if I was mimited to teaching an "Average Civilian Defensive Rifle" I wouldn't do it. It would be the most boring and dry class in the world. A rifle is not for 'defending yourself", although it can be pressed into service for that. The rifle is for forcing your enemies to do as you want either by threat or by eliminating them. It is a military weapon and hat is how we teach it. We teach the entire and complete art of the combat rifle from CQB to fire ande maneuver and everything in between. Anyone who wants to limit thei learning to "average civilian" please do not come to my class as you will be totally overwhelmed.

    OTOH, if you want to learn everything there is about the topic, without a badge or a military ID, I tyhink I can point you in the right direction.
    And all that is absolutely fine - even laudable. Nothing wrong with learning how to do more than you will likely ever need to actually do.

    My only point was that the back-and-forth that has been going on in this thread is pretty much moot for situations most of us will likely (you hope) ever realistically face.
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  9. #68
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez View Post
    The OP was about pistols with a little bleed over onto rifles. When we teach classes, we do not water down the content for "the average civilian". To the contrary, we have been told by US Mil guys that what we teach is far superior to what they got in training. So while we teach with a focus to the lone operator, we teach a member of 5th Group the same as we teach a barber.

    In the sense of rifles, if I was mimited to teaching an "Average Civilian Defensive Rifle" I wouldn't do it. It would be the most boring and dry class in the world. A rifle is not for 'defending yourself", although it can be pressed into service for that. The rifle is for forcing your enemies to do as you want either by threat or by eliminating them. It is a military weapon and hat is how we teach it. We teach the entire and complete art of the combat rifle from CQB to fire ande maneuver and everything in between. Anyone who wants to limit thei learning to "average civilian" please do not come to my class as you will be totally overwhelmed.

    OTOH, if you want to learn everything there is about the topic, without a badge or a military ID, I tyhink I can point you in the right direction.
    Gabe;
    I'd love to take a class from you are one of your SI instructors. But, you haven't been in Florence, SC in awhile. I'd love for you to point me in the right direction in my area.

    Thanks

  10. #69
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Actually we were in Florence back in September for 4 days doing the Advanced AK and the Zero to Five Foot Gunfighting classes.

    Best way to be sure to catch a class you want is to check the schedule ...http://www.suarezinternational.com/tech.html

    I'm working on maybe coming back to Florence this fall, but details are not final yet.
    Randy Harris
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Master Class IDPA SSP

    TRAIN with me....http://www.suarezinternationalstore....px?find=harris

  11. #70
    Member Array Gabe Suarez's Avatar
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    I was discussing a 2011 series in SC with Richard W this weekend. If I can convince the XO and Jr. Staff we will be there.

  12. #71
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe Suarez View Post
    I was discussing a 2011 series in SC with Richard W this weekend. If I can convince the XO and Jr. Staff we will be there.
    Thank You.
    Let me know if I can help in anyway.

  13. #72
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruel Hand Luke View Post
    Actually we were in Florence back in September for 4 days doing the Advanced AK and the Zero to Five Foot Gunfighting classes.

    Best way to be sure to catch a class you want is to check the schedule ...http://www.suarezinternational.com/tech.html

    I'm working on maybe coming back to Florence this fall, but details are not final yet.
    Thanks Luke!

    Where do you train at in TN?

    I have family in the Nashville & Memphis area; so coming to TN to train may be a possibility.

    My wife and I are interested in learning some team tactics.

    I curious as to what range you used around the Florence area. I've been living here 21years and I really only know one range that is not a LEO range; and is suitable for serious and safe "live" fire training. (It wasn't there because I wasn't there.)

  14. #73
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    I'm in Chattanooga.

    The range in Florence is the police range.
    Randy Harris
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Master Class IDPA SSP

    TRAIN with me....http://www.suarezinternationalstore....px?find=harris

  15. #74
    Senior Member Array CR Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Aren't you both Suarez instructors?
    Well, yes, though I would say there IS a spot of difference between us, Gabe being the founder and all...

    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Isn't there just a bit of inconsistency here?
    Well, now that you mention it, no, there's not. Pistol or rifle malfs, it goes into view where I'm looking. Magazines go out if necessary and into either a pocket or the outer pocket of the bag I use for rifle support; I don't look down for that. If I have the slightest hesitation with the mag going in the pocket, I let it go and get the other one. Hand goes to spare magazine, again without looking down, and back into view in the workspace for the reload. I don't think you can help looking at the gun if it stops, as it's something important to survival at the time. What I do believe you can do is 1) put the gun up where you can keep vision on the area of the threat and 2) train yourself not to stare at the gun, but to glance back and forth as you work the reload or the clearance. I'm not at Gabe's level on this, but I have done it on the move and while changing positions and levels. It is easier (stashing the mag) doing it with rifles than with pistols, too (bigger opening on the bag pocket). Key is that I don't drop my head to look at where the magazines are going or coming from; I keep the eyes up where I can glance at the gun as needed and see what's going on in the direction of the threat.
    My cats support the Second Amendment.

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    "Oh, bother," said Pooh as he rocked another mag into the 556R...

  16. #75
    Senior Member Array CR Williams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Hey CR - Nice to see you over here!
    Well, hi, guy! Nice to be here so far.
    My cats support the Second Amendment.

    www.inshadowinlight.com

    "Oh, bother," said Pooh as he rocked another mag into the 556R...

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