Two Training Questions

Two Training Questions

This is a discussion on Two Training Questions within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was at the range yesterday practicing with my Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm. Was speaking with a gentleman who was firing the same pistol. ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    Two Training Questions

    I was at the range yesterday practicing with my Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm. Was speaking with a gentleman who was firing the same pistol. He indicated that he was considering purchasing a .22 semi for practicing at the range due to the expense of 9mm ammunition. I expressed the opinion that you should practice with the handgun you're going to carry, it's worth the money. Based on my day at the range, I have two questions.

    1. Do you agree that you should practice with your carry firearm, or is going with a .22 a good option?

    2. I was able to place 3 or 4 (shots) of ten in the bullseye or the 9 ring (standard NRA target) at 30 feet, but the other 6 to 7 were all low in the 7 or 6 ring. What might be causing me to suddenly place rounds low?


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    Ex Member Array jaredpotts's Avatar
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    While it is definitely better to practice with your carry weapon any practice is better then no practice. As far as you hitting low it could be a lot of things. I would look at your trigger squeeze.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    1. Unless you have an unlimited budget for shooting, incorporating a .22 into your practice makes good sense. I could not afford to shoot the amount I do if I just shot my edc. I think the ideal is practice with a .22, say 250-300 rds, then finish off with carry weapon, 50-100 rds. One thing I believe is that your .22 should have the same grip angle or as near as possible to your carry gun, otherwise you will be throwing off your proprioceptive feedback.

    2. Maybe this will help. The droopy head is not uncommon.
    http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files...ightHanded.pdf
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Well, the fundamentals of shooting. sight alignment, sight picture, proper trigger control, breathing (can play a role in pistols too), proper shooting stance and grip, can all be reinforced by shooting a .22, or even an airsoft, within the limitations of the weapon. A .22 is a rather valuable training tool. That being said, I agree with Guantes that it should mimic your carry gun. For instance, I carry a 1911, and bought a Ruger 22/45, which has the same grip angle, and the controls in places that mimic a 1911. A conversion kit is also a viable option, if they are made for your platform. You should always try to train like you fight, but I can't afford 500 rounds of .45 a week, I can afford 500 rounds of .22 a week (and then top that off with some centerfire).

    As for your second question, were you doing rapid or slow fire? What kind of grip were you using? Were all of the low shots in a row, or interspersed with the center hits?
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    As for your second question, were you doing rapid or slow fire? What kind of grip were you using? Were all of the low shots in a row, or interspersed with the center hits?
    Not true rapid fire, but what I might call "steady fire." Grip: Strong hand wrapped around backstrap, thumb touching middle finger, and support hand wrapped around strong hand fingers, thumbs aligned. Centered and low shots were interspersed.

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    New Member Array scott 40sw's Avatar
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    Training with a 22 allows more live fire training. The fundementals are the same whether it is a 22 or 500 S&W. I would start with shooting the CCgun cold from the holsterwith out any warmup since that is the way you will use it in time of need. then switch to 22 for a couple of hundred rounds. then to wrap up finish with the CCgun. This will leave the recoil management and operational requirements in your mind as the last thing you do. if you can find a 22 conversion for your CCgun it will help ingrain the same motor skills as you practice.
    Scott V
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    http://www.centerfiretraining.com
    Are you Ready?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    Sounds like I may be in the market for a .22 semiauto. Anyone know of a .22 that has the same grip angle as a Smith and Wesson M&P 9c? Or, how would I go about finding one?

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Lay a ruler, on edge, along the front of the grip, then with a protractor check the grip angle relative to the top of the slide. From checking the pics on the S&W site, their Model 22A appears to have about the same girp angle, about 71 degrees. Physically check your own gun then use that method when shopping for a .22.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    Makes perfect sense. Thanks!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    1. Unless you have an unlimited budget for shooting, incorporating a .22 into your practice makes good sense. I could not afford to shoot the amount I do if I just shot my edc. I think the ideal is practice with a .22, say 250-300 rds, then finish off with carry weapon, 50-100 rds. One thing I believe is that your .22 should have the same grip angle or as near as possible to your carry gun, otherwise you will be throwing off your proprioceptive feedback.

    2. Maybe this will help. The droopy head is not uncommon.
    http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files...ightHanded.pdf
    Many thanks to Guantes for the link. Back on the range today and focused on not pushing to far forward (in a 60/40 push/pull) and got my elevation right today. I had a bit of a "windage" problems shooting to the left fairly consistently at 45 feet but I think my stance contributed to that. Not all bulls eyes, but definitely center mass. :)

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Glad to be of help.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    Something that I used to help me keep the proper alignment is balance an empty case on top of your front sight. Then operate the trigger until you can consistently dry fire with the case remaining on the sight.
    Train like your life depends on it, because it does.

    NRA Life Member

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    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtsr View Post
    Something that I used to help me keep the proper alignment is balance an empty case on top of your front sight. Then operate the trigger until you can consistently dry fire with the case remaining on the sight.
    Is that the handgun equivalent of balancing a book on your head to learn proper posture? :) Actually, that sounds like a good idea.

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    Member Array HeadHunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoriBustard View Post
    Sounds like I may be in the market for a .22 semiauto. Anyone know of a .22 that has the same grip angle as a Smith and Wesson M&P 9c? Or, how would I go about finding one?
    S&W had a .22 M&P at the SHOT Show. Made by Walther for S&W.

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