A short range session video

A short range session video

This is a discussion on A short range session video within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; vid added qks I tried to simulate walking and carrying a bag. I spot the threat, draw and fire as I move away at an ...

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Thread: A short range session video

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    A short range session video


    vid added qks

    I tried to simulate walking and carrying a bag. I spot the threat, draw and fire as I move away at an angle. For the sake of safety, I did this at about 75% speed.

    The pistol is my Glock30SF. You'll have to take my word that the shots were about five inches from each other and about four inches above the belt.

    Check it out and tell me what you think.
    Luis

    "Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get hit".

    Mike Tyson


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Try to get your evasive movement and your draw to start at the same time, not the draw followed by the movement. In the run through you started the movement first and in the take the draw first.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Try to get your evasive movement and your draw to start at the same time, not the draw followed by the movement. In the run through you started the movement first and in the take the draw first.
    Thanks Guantes. I'll work on that.
    Luis

    "Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get hit".

    Mike Tyson

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    I would drop the bag, move and draw all in one movement. The bag is of no use in the fight get rid of it, unless you have your kid in it.

    You might also like to watch Roger Phillips's video on his website. Watch how he moves and draws all in the same movement. You're on the right path.

    Fight Focused Concepts - *FORCE ON FORCE GUNFIGHTING*LAS VEGAS*APRIL 16-17,*2011**
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    If you decide that the bag can be sacrificed, rather than just drop it, lose it in a manner that may be a distraction to the assailant. As others and Roger know, movement without a distraction/edge, against an accomplished shooter, will likely get you shot.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  6. #6
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    I was thinking the same thing. Fling that bag in the bad guy's face while putting some distance between you. You were right on top of that target. I'm sure it is easier said than done. It is an interesting drill for sure.

    At that distance you might be better off forgetting the gun for a moment and rushing the attacker depending on the type of weapon he has.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    I don't think throwing or dropping the bag or object is always an option...it may be a small child's hand you're holding or carrying, the object could be too heavy or large.

    Of course there are several options here but, at about four yards, I think a one handed draw with lateral or angled movements isn't a bad course of action.

    I drill this going left or right and sometimes going forward at angles.

    I'm new to this (less than a year carrying) and would like to hear what the trainers and more experienced folks like Guantes think of the draw and movement I showed in the video.
    Luis

    "Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get hit".

    Mike Tyson

  8. #8
    Ex Member Array Kerby's Avatar
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    I think it is fine; we pratice a lot, moving to cover RT and LFT, moving forward and back... it is always harder than I think it will be. I have been on the impression that moving to the left if you are right handed like you did in the video one hand is the way to go while moving right try to keep two hands on the pistol. In the real world you never know what your free hand will be doing, or if it will be free, or where cover is or etc....

    Over all I like what you are doing, and I know how simple it is to think about, and it really seems simple in class or watching videos, yet when you do it it can be very hard to move and keep that front site in focus..

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Louis50,

    To directly answer the question, the draw and the initiation of moevment are too slow., both need to be more explosive.

    Two important things, initiative and distraction/edge. Most times in criminal encounters you will not have the initiative, but must respond in a reactive mode. While this is a significant disadvantage, its the way things are. Lacking the initiative, a distraction/edge is even more important. It is unwise to think that all criminals are dolts in general and specifically relative to firearms. If I was a criminal attempting to rob you and you made the moves in the video at that distance, at that speed with no other advantage (distraction of edge) I would shoot you 2-4 times before you finished the first step or cleared leather.

    Relative to movement, the smaller the distance between you and the assailant, the more it favors oblique forward movement. The reason this is so is that it (forward oblique movement)requires the greatest amount of muzzle correction on the part of the assailant to remain on target. As the distance becomes even smaller, combatives, DATD and other things come into play. As the distance increases, lateral or rearward oblique movement may be of greater advantage, by increasing distance.

    One of the best ways to become aware of and digest these things is FoF, whether with friends or in a class. If the proper attitude is maintained relative to the scenarios practiced, rather than allow it to degeneerate into a shootfest, much can be learned.

    ETA: You may find this of use.
    http://www.neshooters.com/movement_in_gunfights.pdf
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    throw bag at attacker while moving bag hand to draw up shirt and draw weapon....

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    if you are practicing your draw, you have to remember unless you OC, you have that shirt to contend with. It is not as easy as it seems with one hand and moving full speed, if you don't want to practice with a real handgun, get an airsoft or plastic trainer gun and actually draw the weapon....

    keep moving...... dont stop


  12. #12
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    AZ,

    Is this the type of live fire exercise you're talking about in the LaserLyte thread?

    If so, this would be easy to duplicate with the Laserlyte system in the cool of your house... on a slightly smaller scale... But you'd have to be more accurate! the target is smaller....

    Now, granted... in your scenario presented above, it is simply hits that count, they don't apparently have to be COM... just on the target.

    But you could easily set up a camcorder to record your shots in the house and do the same ... and you'd probably see the misses, too. But be able to show the hits on target... and the grouping... If you look at the three vids on the laserlyte site in my second post in the other thread or go here
    You'll see the instructor moving and firing... and the whole thing is video taped.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    AZ, I realize a one handed draw is not easy...that's why I practice it alot. As I said in a previous post, if that object in your hand is a child in a carrier for example, I think a one handed draw with some movement in a direction best suited to the distance available is a very good option.

    Good stuff on your videos. Thanks for posting.
    Luis

    "Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get hit".

    Mike Tyson

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array Kerby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis50 View Post
    AZ, I realize a one handed draw is not easy...that's why I practice it alot. As I said in a previous post, if that object in your hand is a child in a carrier for example, I think a one handed draw with some movement in a direction best suited to the distance available is a very good option.

    Good stuff on your videos. Thanks for posting.
    I agree with you on the one handed draw, I have not drilled with it much but think I may bring it into my rotation, you may need to cover a loved one or child with your other hand and be forced to one hand ccw or oc it should be something you think about and try...

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis50 View Post
    AZ, I realize a one handed draw is not easy...that's why I practice it alot. As I said in a previous post, if that object in your hand is a child in a carrier for example, I think a one handed draw with some movement in a direction best suited to the distance available is a very good option.

    Good stuff on your videos. Thanks for posting.

    Just take it slow until you feel comfortable doing it full speed. May I suggest a few books\videos? The Point Shooting progressions book and DVD series by Roger Phillips and Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back by Col Rex Applegate and Mike Janich.



    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    AZ,

    Is this the type of live fire exercise you're talking about in the LaserLyte thread?

    If so, this would be easy to duplicate with the Laserlyte system in the cool of your house... on a slightly smaller scale... But you'd have to be more accurate! the target is smaller....

    Now, granted... in your scenario presented above, it is simply hits that count, they don't apparently have to be COM... just on the target.

    But you could easily set up a camcorder to record your shots in the house and do the same ... and you'd probably see the misses, too. But be able to show the hits on target... and the grouping... If you look at the three vids on the laserlyte site in my second post in the other thread or go here
    You'll see the instructor moving and firing... and the whole thing is video taped.
    Yes that would be something I am interested in. I have more than enough room to practice but sometimes doing it in 110-120 degree heat gets old in the summer, and summer is coming.

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