The Layman's Primer to Movement in Gunfights

The Layman's Primer to Movement in Gunfights

This is a discussion on The Layman's Primer to Movement in Gunfights within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I posted a link to a pdf of this to assist a member, but thought that I would post the whole document. There are many ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: The Layman's Primer to Movement in Gunfights

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272

    The Layman's Primer to Movement in Gunfights

    I posted a link to a pdf of this to assist a member, but thought that I would post the whole document. There are many members that are new to ccw and related things that have not, or could not afford, to attend formal classes, or buy videos or books and I felt that this would be of use to them. When 7677 and I wrote this we noted that there was no brief source on movement for those new to self defense and gunfighting.




    zacii, azchevy, mr.stuart and 3 others like this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Northern Kentucky
    Posts
    1,709
    Could you post a link to this again in PDF? I would liike to read it on my ipad and share with my wife on hers. Good info.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

    There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.

    Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,109
    Good stuff gloves. This would work hand in hand with a teaching concept I developed by borrowing from the " rice patty squat". It gives the defender an edge by minimizing ones body, making the target for the BG smaller, and thus harder to hit, while at the same time providing the vital organs of the body extra protection by covering a great prtion of it with the large bones in the upper arm.

    As you draw, you blade your non shooting side to the target and come to an improvised kneeling position, while return fire in one fluid motion. With a little practice, this can be done quickly.

    I have long felt there is too much emphasis on run and gun techniques, and pseudo military/ police style tactics preached and taught in so called self defense schools, and not enough emphasis on basic , simple skill sets, such as movement and minimization techniques that vastly increase ones chances of survival in a situation that is most likely what the concerned armed citizen going about his daily business will encounter.

    There is a very good likely hood that there will be no cover, or it is not feasible to make use of it.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,480
    +1 on the PDF link, Please.. My eyes are too old to read it from Jpegs.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  6. #6
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,716
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Good stuff gloves. This would work hand in hand with a teaching concept I developed by borrowing from the " rice patty squat". It gives the defender an edge by minimizing ones body, making the target for the BG smaller, and thus harder to hit, while at the same time providing the vital organs of the body extra protection by covering a great prtion of it with the large bones in the upper arm.

    As you draw, you blade your non shooting side to the target and come to an improvised kneeling position, while return fire in one fluid motion. With a little practice, this can be done quickly.

    I have long felt there is too much emphasis on run and gun techniques, and pseudo military/ police style tactics preached and taught in so called self defense schools, and not enough emphasis on basic , simple skill sets, such as movement and minimization techniques that vastly increase ones chances of survival in a situation that is most likely what the concerned armed citizen going about his daily business will encounter.

    There is a very good likely hood that there will be no cover, or it is not feasible to make use of it.
    "Planting rice" is a good H2H technique taught in Arnis. Few attackers expect the defender to drop down like that. If you have a stick in your hand and hit the ground with it as you go downward, it gains quite a bit of energy for the upward thrust.

    In your application, as you suggest, it would reduce target and get you a sturdy base. It does though increase the risk of getting kicked right in the face.

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oceanfront Property
    Posts
    3,850
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Good stuff gloves. This would work hand in hand with a teaching concept I developed by borrowing from the " rice patty squat". It gives the defender an edge by minimizing ones body, making the target for the BG smaller, and thus harder to hit, while at the same time providing the vital organs of the body extra protection by covering a great prtion of it with the large bones in the upper arm.

    As you draw, you blade your non shooting side to the target and come to an improvised kneeling position, while return fire in one fluid motion. With a little practice, this can be done quickly.

    I have long felt there is too much emphasis on run and gun techniques, and pseudo military/ police style tactics preached and taught in so called self defense schools, and not enough emphasis on basic , simple skill sets, such as movement and minimization techniques that vastly increase ones chances of survival in a situation that is most likely what the concerned armed citizen going about his daily business will encounter.

    There is a very good likely hood that there will be no cover, or it is not feasible to make use of it.
    I simply train in moving away from or opposite the attackers strong hand with the weapon, while blading, and continue to score hits on the attacker to throw him out of his ooda loop. Creating distance and scoring hits. Bottom line is as a civilian, I am not attached to a specops team or swat unit so my goal is to create distance and or stop the attack while doing so. I use force on force training coupled with live fire at stationary targets to achieve this. I think the movement direction and technique is all going to depend on surroundings, it is hard to move into a car/wall/building so it is all up to the situation and surroundings. One thing I learned from riding a motorcycle all these years on the street and in past careers is to always look for escape routes and be aware of everything around me at all times, head on a swivel. be aware of your surroundings so if something happens, you have an escape route and don't start running backwards or to the side into a pole or something. I can say to always run to one side or in one direction, but reality and environment may prevent this so you must train for the unexpected.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,752
    Thanks for the work to put that together
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,480
    Thanks for the pdf link, Guantes. And the work to put it together.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,109
    As Guantes stated in the above diaghram, movement enough may not be enough. The element of suprise works wonders. And as AZchevy noted, there may be obstacles.

    I firmly believe in seizing the initiative. By standing still and engaging in a face to face, you are allowing yourself and the aggressor the same oppurtunity.

    What absolutlely must be understood is that distance will dictate the course of action. By moving, you are making it more dificult to track, and forcing the aggressor to re adjust to you. This is key. With practice either technique can be performed with suprise, speed, and accurate fire on target.

    The next time you are out and about, stop and look around. Place yourself in a defensive situation. There is a very good chance that there will be no cover readily available. Next place your imaginary aggressors at different intervals and distance. What you will see is where these techniques come into play.
    azchevy likes this.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,733
    All for movement, getting off the "X" and looking for cover.........very informative and well thought.
    Thanks....

  12. #12
    3D
    3D is offline
    Senior Member Array 3D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    517
    Very helpful. . . Thanks Guantes for you continuing and substantial contributiions.

    I've been thinking about how to incoorporate my past Aikido training and movements into gunfight defense. This "Primer" does that.

    Salient points by azchevy & glockman10mm appreciated.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    Thanks to all.
    I saw a need for something brief that would help someone new to SD, that they could read and in a short period of time and have some understanding of the place of movement in gunfights, without the output of time or money for classes or books/vidoes. I think that we accomplished that.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Metro DC
    Posts
    958
    Good material. Although I always find it fascinating how many instructors assume there will even be anywhere to move. There is no shortage of incidents in which LEOs have to contend with stairways, hallways, elevators, etc.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,109
    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    Good material. Although I always find it fascinating how many instructors assume there will even be anywhere to move. There is no shortage of incidents in which LEOs have to contend with stairways, hallways, elevators, etc.
    That is one of the problems all teachers and instructors encounter in their goals of passing on knowledge. The tendancy to sometimes get "fixated" on scenarios or on what's popular.

    While it is true that lateral movement may not always be possible, you have just given a perfect example of "fixation". The ability to move is always an option, even in the confines of limited space. Sometimes distance must be created, sometimes the only option is to minimize your body in the technique I advocate. Either way, it's movement.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Gunfights are no laughing matter SNL.........
    By Old School in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: October 5th, 2010, 12:52 PM
  2. A Layman looks at the KA-BAR TDI
    By aznav in forum Defensive Knives & Other Weapons
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: July 23rd, 2010, 09:45 PM
  3. Does Conventional Marksmanship Win Gunfights?
    By Matthew Temkin in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: January 25th, 2010, 10:23 PM
  4. Percentage of hits in gunfights
    By Andy W. in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: April 26th, 2008, 09:35 AM
  5. NYPD 2006 Hit ratio in Gunfights
    By DCJS Instructor in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: December 17th, 2007, 03:35 PM

Search tags for this page

gunfight lateral movement
,
layman's primer to movement
,

movement during gunfight pdf

,

movement gun fights

,

movement in gunfights

,
movement in gunfights pdf
,
swat tactics for laymen
,
tactical movement book
,
tactical training for laymen
,

the layman's guide to movement in gunfights

,

the layman's primer to movement in gunfights

,
the laymans primer to movement in a gunfight
Click on a term to search for related topics.