Evolve or stagnate

Evolve or stagnate

This is a discussion on Evolve or stagnate within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; 15 June 04 Typical frustration expressed by a student: "This weekend, I came to the conclusion that going to different firearms instructors, all of whom ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Evolve or stagnate

    15 June 04

    Typical frustration expressed by a student:

    "This weekend, I came to the conclusion that going to different firearms instructors, all of whom have different techniques, is causing me to never s ettle on one way of doing things. It seems, for example, everybody has a different opinion on:

    Exactly where the left hand should be when you draw.

    Thumbs 'down' on the grip (Ayoob), thumbs =98aggressively forw ard' (US Marshals), thumbs 'high' (Farnam and Suarez).

    Middle of first finger pad for trigger contact, or first digit crease. Both methods are commonly taught.

    Stoppage reduction, tilt the pistol upward to 'analyze' the situatio n first. Or, just TRB, and, if necessary, LRWTRB. Both approaches are taught. One can TRB via twisting the weapon first, so that the ejection port is directed downward, but I have been trained by you to TRB without twisting the pistol at all.

    You can perform a visual chamber check during daylight, so why not? Of course you can't do either of the above in darkness.

    I have been trained by Farnam and Suarez to be moving off the line of force constantly. Others have told me to do everything while standing in one spot .

    I have been trained in gunfighting by people who have never been near one. I have been trained by people who have been in violent infantry combat (Farnam ). I have been trained by people who have been in law enforcement street gunfights (Cirillo and Suarez). I have been trained by people who have cred entials of surviving a gunfight, but to me it seems a miracle they did.

    All these variations are driving me nuts and keeping me from settling into any specific 'system.' It is frustrating, and perhaps dangerous, be cause I no longer am sure exactly what I will do under stress."

    My reply:

    "As our friend and colleague, Danny Inosanto, says, 'Absorb what is useful.' All instructors try to package the best information and technique routine an d present it to the student, but our art is evolving continuously, and I, for one, adopt new techniques and abandon old ones regularly. We all agree on t he big stuff, but there is much variation in the details, as you noted. In the end, each of us has to develop his own 'system' and stay with it, un til something better comes along. When it does, we then have to have the person al courage to abandon the old and embrace the new.

    I know it is frustrating, but true, personal growth always is, and we dare not stop!"

    /John


    John Farnam's Quips - 15June04.html


  2. #2
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    Thank you, good post.

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    If one art teacher had you using van Gogh's technique and another had you using Picasso's, which would you choose? The answer is simply to try both, critically evaluate them, and determine what works best for you.

    One of my favorite instructors addresses this in the preamble to his courses. He says "what you'll see in this course is A way to do something, not THE way. All I ask is that you try it while you're here, work at it, and if it doesn't work for you, choose a different way." Pretty good advice.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

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    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    Good topic. It's a personal matter that depends on your goals. I will only deal with instructors that emphasize defense...getting metal on meat first and avoiding getting shot is my main goal. My grip and stance matter less than my mindset and draw speed. Accuracy to me means making fast hits anywhere on threat. I will pay for a good force on force instructor/class before I pay a guy to tighten my shot groups.

    These type of instructors tend to not focus on tiny details like, where your hand is when you draw.

    That's the way I see it. Keep it simple.
    Luis

    "Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get hit".

    Mike Tyson

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Good thought provoking post. Noone is always right, and noone is always wrong. There is no mandated beginning to your actions in a lethal force encounter, and no ending, other than surviving.

    Having said all of that, I think the idea of traing is to make you respond, do something.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis50 View Post
    Good topic. It's a personal matter that depends on your goals. I will only deal with instructors that emphasize defense...getting metal on meat first and avoiding getting shot is my main goal. My grip and stance matter less than my mindset and draw speed. Accuracy to me means making fast hits anywhere on threat. I will pay for a good force on force instructor/class before I pay a guy to tighten my shot groups.
    That's great...right up until it isn't.

    You don't get to chose the fight you end up in.

    It could be a "knife fight, but with guns" between 2 parked cars...or dealing with someone 75 yards away who I decide needs to go for some reason.

    I'll pay for making me more dangerous, force on force...or allowing me to reach out and touch someone at a distance.

    And I have...each was worth every penny.

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    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    That's great...right up until it isn't.

    You don't get to chose the fight you end up in.

    It could be a "knife fight, but with guns" between 2 parked cars...or dealing with someone 75 yards away who I decide needs to go for some reason.

    I'll pay for making me more dangerous, force on force...or allowing me to reach out and touch someone at a distance.

    And I have...each was worth every penny.
    Point taken.

    I stated what is a priority for me and my money.
    Luis

    "Everybody's got a plan, 'til they get hit".

    Mike Tyson

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    And the reverse for me is that I'll one day get in a situation and say right before I fade out from blood loss "I should have focused more on this kind of stuff..."


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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    In that moment it comes to what a instructor friend on mine likes to quote "Situations dictate strategies, strategies dictate tactics, and tactics dictate techniques". The fight will be what the fight will be. Are you ready? That is the question and only you can answer it.

    Stay safe and ready
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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    Member Array jrfctx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis50 View Post
    Good topic. It's a personal matter that depends on your goals. I will only deal with instructors that emphasize defense...getting metal on meat first and avoiding getting shot is my main goal. My grip and stance matter less than my mindset and draw speed. Accuracy to me means making fast hits anywhere on threat. I will pay for a good force on force instructor/class before I pay a guy to tighten my shot groups.

    These type of instructors tend to not focus on tiny details like, where your hand is when you draw.

    That's the way I see it. Keep it simple.
    I think knowing oneself is key in choosing who to train with. It's a good question to ask yourself once you have the basics down. Some folks seek to develop their mindset for a lethal force encounter, and some don't sweat it because they're already there. The former tend to develop at a slower pace while the later seem to progress rapidly.

    Our choices in finding instruction tend to reflect how we view ourselves. Some hope to survive an encounter, and some seek to dominate it.
    Last edited by jrfctx; March 16th, 2011 at 03:43 AM.

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