Topic Points to address in the event of a Pre/In/Post-Use of Force class?

This is a discussion on Topic Points to address in the event of a Pre/In/Post-Use of Force class? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been toying with the idea of doing a class on Pre/In/Post Use of Force issues. I know what I'd like to address, but I'd ...

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Thread: Topic Points to address in the event of a Pre/In/Post-Use of Force class?

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Topic Points to address in the event of a Pre/In/Post-Use of Force class?

    I've been toying with the idea of doing a class on Pre/In/Post Use of Force issues.

    I know what I'd like to address, but I'd like to hear what people's questions are.

    I will not be focusing on "What If's" of "If this happens, can I shoot him?" stuff. Quite frankly, that's mental masturbation, and I have no interest in fantasy or encouraging the same.

    (I get enough jerking around in the course of my employment - "These aren't my pants! I have no idea how drugs got into my pockets!" - so thanks, but no thanks...)

    Rather, I want to focus on enableing people to make better decissions, and make them faster by giving an understanding of Pre/In/Post Use of Force issues that are in play for the average person who's job isn't to take people into custody or guard people/places.

    I'm anticipating total time of about 6 to 8 hours, with reading material to be sent in advance of the class for people to be able to come in having at least read the material and being prepared to discuss it. This is flexible.

    OK.

    Discuss.

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    JD
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    I'm always looking for more information on disparity of force, seems like most of the questions I get are about multiple, unarmed attackers. I don't really have any questions about it but like having a better repertoire of answers other than the "If you feel you are in danger of great bodily harm...etc"

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    How about things like de-escalation techniques (prevent the need to use force), the use of force continumum (appropriate amount of force that can be used), what to expect from LE after the use of force (that they can expect to be charged with etc...), importance of liability insurance (most people don't have a large bank account to tap into to pay for a lawyer).
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    How about things like de-escalation techniques (prevent the need to use force)
    Somewhat outside of what I'm interested in doing.

    See Shivworks ECQC Managing Unknown Contacts, Tactical Response's class "The Fight", John Farnam's classes or MAG-40 (Classroom & Livefire) for actually dealing with people in combative situations.

    What I'm aiming for is understanding the issues in play while you are dealing with people, so you can make a better decission while dealing with someone without worrying/worrying less about "Oh...am I in danger of going to jail for defending myself...do I need to let him do something before I do something..."

    You need to first understand "What am I actually allowed to do?" before you can move more effectively to "What do I do now?"

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Maybe a segment on cultural issues? Stuff like differences in perception of "personal space".
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Somewhat outside of what I'm interested in doing.

    See Shivworks ECQC Managing Unknown Contacts, Tactical Response's class "The Fight", John Farnam's classes or MAG-40 (Classroom & Livefire) for actually dealing with people in combative situations.

    What I'm aiming for is understanding the issues in play while you are dealing with people, so you can make a better decission while dealing with someone without worrying/worrying less about "Oh...am I in danger of going to jail for defending myself...do I need to let him do something before I do something..."

    You need to first understand "What am I actually allowed to do?" before you can move more effectively to "What do I do now?"
    Maybe A.O.J. It should be the decission making standard IMO. JD had a good point as well.
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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Nothing else?

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    As far as Post use of force you might want to spend some time on the psychological aftermath. Typical stress reactions to look for and how to deal with them. Actually now that I think about it a little more maybe include some of the bio chemistry involved too. I.e. what that adrenaline dump actually does as far as blood pressure, vision, hearing, perception of time.
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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    If I was to do a test class, who's interested?

    August 14, 2011.
    Bridgeport, CT.
    Noon till people are tired of listening to me speak or the people in the neighborhood try to boost the cars in the parking lot and we have an applied less in use of force/police interaction/rifle balistics.

    PM for info.

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    Long way away and can't attend, but if you are holding the class I would buy the tape. Sorry, dating myself, Audio/video.
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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Thank you to those who participated on August 14th.

    Your feedback was appreciated and I'll let you know about the next one incorporating your requests for additional material.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    How about a webinar next time on the lecture portion of your class.
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    If you would post a brief topical outline of the course, that would help us make suggestions to flesh out or add to the syllabus. I'm always looking for ways to improve content and presentation. Thanks.
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    While I can understand the thinking behind FoF classes, I would suggest that they be treated along the lines of "Introduction to Martial Arts" deals.

    It is highly unlikely that you'll acquire useful skills in a weekend seminar. Oh, sure, you can probably pick up a few tips that might come in handy, but what I'm getting at is something a bit more complex.

    For example, let's say somebody comes up behind you and puts a hand on your shoulder. Can you tell if it's their right or left hand? Do you have an idea of how large the person is? Will your reaction be precise and effective?

    Just that scenario, answering those questions, is something you can learn and it takes a long time. More importantly, when your skills are developed, you will process all that information instantly and react automatically, with kinesthetic speed and you will be right and if you want, you can shake hands with the person or put them on the ground and secure them with a joint lock or stomp them or run, as circumstances dictate.

    Same with holding someone off while you draw, getting some room; same with dealing with a knife attack. Honing your reactions until they are reflexive takes work. And time.

    Then there's the matter of will power. For many, an engagement can be paralyzing. Most of us don't live in a world of violence and conflict. When the situation gets combative, unless you train regularly there's a very real chance you'll just freeze up. Yes, all the people on the Internet are commandos and go into hyperdrive at the drop of a pin, sure they do.

    But men, women, people of all ages, need to train for conflict and get comfortable being shoved, hit, kicked, slapped, yelled at, and learn to blast through that and take control. Eventually, not only does it become second nature, but just as with drawing and firing in combat, you learn to go slow and smooth, decisively and accurately. It usually doesn't even need much strength, if you position yourself properly.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I agree with the disparity issue. I am also interested in attending. Always looking for a good reason for a road trip.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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