How do You Do a Tactical Reload

This is a discussion on How do You Do a Tactical Reload within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Therbligs notwithstanding, I think that any practical difference relative to which is better, between the two methods, would be inconsequential in any but rare incidents....

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Thread: How do You Do a Tactical Reload

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Therbligs notwithstanding, I think that any practical difference relative to which is better, between the two methods, would be inconsequential in any but rare incidents.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Texag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I've found the tactical reload to be an over used gun manipulation drill mandated by IDPA.

    What seems to work in real life is to get thee behind cover. Drop the magazine in the gun, letting it fall to the ground. Insert a fresh magazine and then reach down and pick up the magazine from the ground. remember you are behind cover, so the time saved by attempting to manipulate two magazines with one hand is not all that important unless you are a gamer. Of course this will DQ you from the match, but a gunfight isn't a match.

    Biker

    Dropping partially loaded mags onto a hard surface is a great way to have the rounds in the mag shift position and cause a malfunction should that mag be needed.

    The first way mentioned, with two mags in the same hand, is the way I do it. That way minimizes the time I have a gun with no mag in the magwell. Practice it, it's pretty easy to do and very quick.
    I collect ammo, not guns.

  4. #18
    Member Array gigamortis's Avatar
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    Motor skills wise, I prefer to pull the mag in the gun and stow it in my back jeans pocket (very quick as I always wear jeans), and pick up a fresh mag from my mag pouch on the way back up to the gun.

    I carry a single stack 1911 with no aftermarket magwell and having two mags in the same hand as per "tactical reload" definition would be very challenging in a stressful situation. I prefer "reload with retention" much better. In addition, I can physically apply more force to ensure the fresh mag is seated all the way when I am only handling one mag at a time, too.

    Of course, a tactical reload may be much easier with a double stack gun, as you don't have to be as precise for the mag to find its way home in the gun.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    Anyone seen a "Tac-reload" on a revolver, after seeing some I am glad I carry more reloads then most and go with the attitude of "dump it all and reload it all". Understress I do not want to be trying to figure out that mess.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I developed a revolver reload with retention using speed loaders, that I use.
    Last edited by Guantes; March 24th, 2011 at 04:09 PM. Reason: Clarification
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array dgg9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    The key is to minimize the amount of time your gun is without any ammo.
    If the fight is still on, that's 100% correct. And if that's the goal, only a speed reload will suffice. The notion of the "gunfight lull" -- where you do your tac reload -- is IMO a myth. You can't tell it's a lull while it's happening. If you're completely sure the fight is over, then sure, reload with retention.

    The tactical reload is one of those tactics which has military and gaming application but little use for a civilian defender. Really, the only use for a tac reload for a CCWer is to keep your mags dry and off the deck in between strings at a training course.

    What scenario would a tac reload be the deal-breaker for? First, you'd have the initial exchange of gunfire. Then a lull, where you do the tac reload. Then a second exchange of gunfire. Then another reload (speed or emergency), and then a THIRD exchange of gunfire, where only then are the rounds saved in the tac reload the telling factor.

    It's hardly necessary to say that you will look in vain for anything resembling this scenario in a CCW defensive shooting.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    While the need of a tactical reload is probably remote, it is a relatively easily learned and mastered technique, so I see no practical reason not to include it in my toolbox. Should a situation arise that I need it, I have it.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array dgg9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    While the need of a tactical reload is probably remote, it is a relatively easily learned and mastered technique, so I see no practical reason not to include it in my toolbox. Should a situation arise that I need it, I have it.
    Well, that's just it -- what actual situation is there that would "require" it? It's a solution in search of a question. And while it's easily learned, it's certainly not adrenaline-friendly, which IMO is the primary filter all combat techniques must pass. It serves no defensive purpose, and is easily fumbled under stress (with dire results).

    I have the opposite approach: I don't lightly just add anything to the "toolbox." The goal of a combat doctrine is to reduce as far as possible the core number of techniques, and not have a lot of superfluous manipulations that don't serve a purpose. When presented by a new technique, I always ask: is this necessary or is it a gimmick? What purpose does it serve and is that purpose legitimate? Will more adrenaline-adapted techniques that already exist cover the ostensible purpose?

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Freedom of choice is a great thing.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  11. #25
    Member Array Orive 8's Avatar
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    Several officers in my old agengy used Tac Loads properly after their officer involved shootings. After "stopping" the suspect, both of the officers covered down on him from positions of cover. They both performed Tac Loads (as they were trained) and continued to cover down on the suspect (with fully loaded guns) until back up units arrived to take custody of downed suspect.

    Yes, Tac Loads can be used and have been used effectively in the past.
    Tomorrow's battle is won during today's practice.

  12. #26
    Member Array raytracer's Avatar
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    Drop the magazine in the gun, letting it fall to the ground... (snippage) Of course this will DQ you from the match, but a gunfight isn't a match.
    You won't be sent for ice cream for dropping a mag during a tac load / reload-with-retention. If you pick it up and stow it (keep that muzzle downrange) before firing another shot, you won't even incur a penalty. If you go ahead and resume shooting, you will incure a 3 second procedural penalty. Dropping a loaded mag or speedloader from a belt carrier will incur an automatic procedural. Dagnabbit - I'm still sore about that one from last weekend, almost cost me the match.

    The only drop related DQ would be for a loaded firearm. And remember, don't try and catch a dropped firearm - much safer to let it fall. Only seen that happen once at any rate.

    Joe

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array dgg9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orive 8 View Post
    Several officers in my old agengy used Tac Loads properly after their officer involved shootings. After "stopping" the suspect, both of the officers covered down on him from positions of cover. They both performed Tac Loads (as they were trained) and continued to cover down on the suspect (with fully loaded guns) until back up units arrived to take custody of downed suspect.

    Yes, Tac Loads can be used and have been used effectively in the past.
    Reload with retention would have achieved the same thing. But, I have no opinion on LE/mil techniques. I see no value-add, and much disadvantage, to the tac reload for the CCWer.

  14. #28
    Member Array Orive 8's Avatar
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    "Reload with retention would have achieved the same thing"

    Yep I agree, before IDPA came around with the reload with retention name, we used to teach the same thing to our officers as an alternative to the Tac Load, we called it the "ADA Load" - for those officers that were digitally challenged!

    Can a CCWer have a use for the Tac Load you bet; Mongo the Barbarian breaks down your door with a crow bar in hand, you draw you CCW gun and drop mongo with 2, 3, 4, 5, (you pick the number of rounds) and yell for your wife to call 911, while waiting for PD to respond to your address from a position of cover, you perform your Tac Load (if you are one of the digitally challenged types, do a reload with retention if it floats your boat - it's your gunfight after all) and continue to cover down on the downed bad guy, waiting to see if his buddy who was waiting outside decides to come in or leave.

    So yeah, I see a use for a Tac Load in a CCW/Home Defense scenario. As someone who has trained MANY (by last count 3,000 or so) individuals to use a handgun for self defense, I have seen many of these individuals be able to master the Tac Load without major problems or headaches.

    I will also add, that over the years I have learned various Tac Loads from different instructors/schools. It is up to the individual to pick the one that he/she is able to do easiest and practice it to maintain proficiency with it. (Dry Fire Drills!) My wife and I both use different Tac Loads, based on our hand and magazine size.
    Tomorrow's battle is won during today's practice.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array dgg9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orive 8 View Post
    Can a CCWer have a use for the Tac Load you bet; Mongo the Barbarian breaks down your door with a crow bar in hand, you draw you CCW gun and drop mongo with 2, 3, 4, 5, (you pick the number of rounds) and yell for your wife to call 911, while waiting for PD to respond to your address from a position of cover, you perform your Tac Load (if you are one of the digitally challenged types, do a reload with retention if it floats your boat - it's your gunfight after all) and continue to cover down on the downed bad guy, waiting to see if his buddy who was waiting outside decides to come in or leave.
    First, your example is home defense, not CCW, but let's put that aside.

    The main problem is this: if you think the fight isn't over -- BG might revive, or his crew might come through the door -- then you're on the clock still. Then a tac reload is contra-indicated. You speed reload if you want more rounds. The problem with these arguments for tac reloads is there's a contradiction being skirted: you want the tac reload because it's quicker than a RWR but you're doing the tac load because it's a "lull." If speed is the issue, you speed reload. If the fight is over but you want to top off, RWR. Or better yet, just speed reload because you're soaked with adrenaline.

    So yeah, I see a use for a Tac Load in a CCW/Home Defense scenario.
    Ok, then: given that there are 100,000 to 1,000,000 such events per year, can you find even a single case where the rounds preserved in a tac load were the make or break factor in a DGU? Even one?

    As someone who has trained MANY (by last count 3,000 or so) individuals to use a handgun for self defense, I have seen many of these individuals be able to master the Tac Load without major problems or headaches.
    Many things work on the range or in classes. But I think we can agree that's not the filter for what you select to be adrenaline-congenial. Tac load is a fine motor skill, which, if your hands are cold, sweaty, bloody, less-coordinated-from-adrenaline, you could dump both mags on the deck.

    I will also add, that over the years I have learned various Tac Loads from different instructors/schools.
    I have as well. It's a neat range skill. Many of those instructors have reconsidered and now advocate not doing a tac reload in the CCW world.

  16. #30
    Member Array Orive 8's Avatar
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    dgg9,
    I wrote my points, I read yours, I don't agree with yours but that is that, each of us must make decisions for him or herself based on out training/background/lifestyles, etc...

    Good luck to you, keep on training how you see is best for you.
    Tomorrow's battle is won during today's practice.

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