Just finished MAG 80 (Mas Ayoob)

[aznav]

The second of four Mas Ayoob five day, 50 hour classes on self defense. Where 50% of the first class was instruction and note taking for before/during/and after a self defense shooting, the second class was 30% hand-to-hand defense for either gun retention or gun disarming. I am sore from the tip of my neck to the bottom of my feet. Shoulda read the fine print. However, I feel much more qualified for protecting my firearm should someone try to grab it from my holster or hand - front or behind. As far as taking a weapon from the bad guy in front of you, you better ding-dong-dang be sure your life is about to be over. It's the last second maneuver to save your life. There was significant review from the first class which I found incredibly helpful.

A good deal of work with carbine/shotgun tactical training. There are some mean shotguns out there. As I said in another thread, lots of dust and wind (high Sierra Plains) made several of the pump shotguns jamb while, surprisingly, the autos worked flawlessly. In fairness, the autos were on the high end of expense.

We also had legal-law review, a mini course on forensics taught by an ATF trained pro, how to clear a house and how to cuss like a sailor.

Finally, in addition to hours of regular range shooting, we practiced "wounded cop" drills with weak hand shooting and reloading as well as a half dozen different positions of shooting.

The course was well worth the money and time but, brother, if you hear that I am thinking about taking the MAG 120, you have permission to call my wife!

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[atctimmy]

Bumps and bruises sore or muscles you haven't used in years sore?

[aznav]

Bumps and bruises sore or muscles you haven't used in years sore?

Please to explain?

[aznav]

Here are some pics from the class for anyone interested. We are the MAG 80 class in Sierra Vista, AZ.

Class Photos | Massad Ayoob Group

[gasmitty]

I'm curious as to your observations regarding the diversity of hardware the attendees brought to class, the number of rounds you went through, and weapon reliability. You mentioned the pump shotguns had problems, and there was a pic of Mas cranking on an 870... did his weapons have any difficulties?

Also, what was the class makeup - mostly "civilians," or were there any LEO or mil types in attendance?

[aznav]

I'm curious as to your observations regarding the diversity of hardware the attendees brought to class, the number of rounds you went through, and weapon reliability. You mentioned the pump shotguns had problems, and there was a pic of Mas cranking on an 870... did his weapons have any difficulties?

Also, what was the class makeup - mostly "civilians," or were there any LEO or mil types in attendance?

1. Don't honestly know much of the hardware. Weapons were always, always, secured. No "brandishing" whatsoever. Only could draw them on command from the line. Very much like basic. There were a couple 1911's, one cowboy with three sa revolvers (he was good!), one SW 44, some glocks, a couple HK's and just did not know the rest.
2. 800 rounds of handgun ammo, maybe 200 shotgun rounds (mostly slugs).
3. There were a number of ftf's that I am guessing were dust related.
4. Pumps seized more than autos. Have no idea why, they just did. As best as I could tell, there were no low-end weapons of any kind. Folks brought their good stuff.
5. Mas had no problems... ever.
6. The auto shotguns were more than impressive. Always heard trust the pump over the auto but not that week. We had one drill of firing five shotgun rounds in x number of seconds. Lordy, the semiauto guys made it sound like automatic fire. No kidding!
7. I would say that fifty percent were active or retired LEO's, 25% were federal agents of one sort of another and 25% were people like me that didn't know any better.

[dukalmighty]

Please to explain?

He is asking if you are sore from getting beat up during weapon retention,or just sore muscles that aren't used to the stress

[aznav]

He is asking if you are sore from getting beat up during weapon retention,or just sore muscles that aren't used to the stress

Oh, now it makes sense. A little slow, here. I would say a little of both. Some guys really went at it and some were a bit more judicious. I developed arthritis in my left palm/thumb last summer and, brother, it's amazing how a little squeeze here and there sends me into orbit. Sigh.

[threefeathers]

Marty Hayes put much effort into the retentions classes. Both the MAG 40 and the MAG 8- went at least an hour longer each day so each ended with 44+ hours of training.