Gabe Suarez ?

This is a discussion on Gabe Suarez ? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Blackhawk6 Instructional content issues aside, from a practical standpoint, I think Mr. Suarez's past would be a liability in the event I ...

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Thread: Gabe Suarez ?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk6
    Instructional content issues aside, from a practical standpoint, I think Mr. Suarez's past would be a liability in the event I ever needed him to testify on my behalf. I am sure it could be used to call into question anything he might testify about and compromise his value as a witness.
    Not speaking specifically about this instructor, but this statement for me was an eye opener! I have always considered the credibility of an instructor regarding skill, but apparently I didn't think it all the way through... Credibility as an expert witness!

    When looking for firearms training and advise, I won’t forget this one! Thanks Blackhawk6!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

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  3. #17
    Member Array Dave James's Avatar
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    Gabe is neither right or wrong , good or bad,, he is an excellent instructor who makes you think, as far as court goes I'm not worried about it, he's not a FELON, and his past is an open book, his training has stood on its on here and abroad..

    It just comes down to "pay your money, pick your poison"

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Ride4TheBrand's Avatar
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    It seems to me that you either know your stuff, or you don't.

    So basically, the argument of whether or not an accusation or admission of guilt has any bearing on one's expertise or evident abilities means....

    ... Pete Rose should never make the Hall of Fame?
    "We must remember that one man is much
    the same as another, and that he is best
    who is trained in the severest school."
    ~Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array Sweatnbullets's Avatar
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    I have taken four courses with Gabe (CRG, CRGII, Interactive Gunfighting twice. Once as a tactical house clearing course and once in the new format.) They were all very good courses and well worth the money. His new Interactive Gunfighting course was my favorite.

    I tend to judge people on how they have treated me personally. WTS, I would train with Gabe again.

    Whirlwind, If you would like to know more about the courses, PM me.

  6. #20
    Member Array DonGlock26's Avatar
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    I hope to take one of Gabe's classes in the future. I have told my wife how beautiful Arizona is,too.

    I would rather Gabe drive me around than Ted Kennedy. I would rather Gabe babysit my nieces than any Kennedy, Bill Clinton, or Jude Law. And, I'd rather go jogging in Washington DC with Gabe than Justice Souter as well.

  7. #21
    Member Array paknheat's Avatar
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    Well said there DonGlock26. I have never taken any of his courses either. One of my good friends and training partners has though. He also trains with SouthNarc .He has had nothing negative to say about Gabe, or his courses.
    A armed person is a citizen-An unarmed person is a future victim.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Clintons, Kennedys, Ron Lay, Enron, Adelphia, too many to list and these were leaders of industry and Government
    Though not a criminal, my own past is not that of a saint. I personally intend to take at least one of Gabe's classes.

    Mao could have taught alot about guerilla warfare and Rommel could have taught armor tactics, JC himself could have taught of rebellions. Each and everyone of them was wrong depending on your point of view. Should we fail to learn from them then?

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Ride4TheBrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .45acp
    Mao could have taught alot about guerilla warfare and Rommel could have taught armor tactics, JC himself could have taught of rebellions. Each and everyone of them was wrong depending on your point of view. Should we fail to learn from them then?
    Holy cow! I thought this very thing. Rommel is still taught at West Point, IIRC.
    "We must remember that one man is much
    the same as another, and that he is best
    who is trained in the severest school."
    ~Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War

  10. #24
    New Member Array Big Daddy 45acp's Avatar
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    I have been lurking here for a while, and this is my first post.

    I just finished 2 days training with Gabe (Extreme Close Range Gunfighting) and I have this to say...2 THUMBS UP!

    In 2 days, I learned things that were never covered in 15 years of military and law enforcement. Situations that I thought were hopeless, now have a potential solution. I found out that it IS possible to beat a drawn gun without getting hurt! Risky, but better than the alternative.

    Gabe doesn't guarantee that these techniques will work, but with the force on force component, he shows you how that may work.

    He is not dogmatic in the way of many LEO instructors and others. He gives you the knowledge to think on your feet and take the edge back from the BG.

    In my personal experience from this class, I can honestly say that "Front sight, press" is out the window for me, unless I gain the upper hand.

    Gabe is a great person, I learned BOTH sides of his story, and knowing how politics work in some departments, I believe him.

    As far as his credibility in court, I hope to never find out. What I do know is this, he has given me the tools (to perfect on my own) that will help me be there in court and not in a pine box. If you worry too much in advance about the aftermath, you may not survive the attack to be there for the aftermath!

    His courses are less expensive than most, taught nationwide and internationally, and if you don't like the man, take a course with one of his Staff instructors. I think you will like the methods.

  11. #25
    Member Array symr00's Avatar
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    I've been to a couple of his courses. Everyone was professional and used firearms for their job. He's controversial but knows what he's talking about and teaches real world stuff. Not square range unrealistic stuff taught at many other schools. His Force on Force class was the first one I found available using airsoft at the time. Now, many others have realized how popular and inexpensive FOF with airsoft is. If he's in the area, I recommend taking a course. He also hosts other trainers like Janich, Southnarc and Marc Crafty Dog to name a few.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    I don't know Gabe Suarez, never met him, never talked to him, don't even think I've exchanged emails, although I too got on his email list.

    I don't know all of Gabe's story, but I can empathize.
    Last edited by Al Lowe; July 26th, 2006 at 12:09 PM. Reason: No need to leave it out there. ;)

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Its Funny Gabe is hated on a lot of forums i don't know the story other than what i have read in this thread one way or the other..
    His books are good and i've done a review of some of them here..


    Now here is a food for thought question and sort of off topic..

    If Gabe's problems are what is held against him

    Why is Mas ayoob Hated just as much?? when he seems to be on the up and up .. Though some will yell he trys to scare you to death i think most of his stuff is valid as well

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    BD, welcome to the other great forum on the Internet!

    You found like I did last year that Gabe "tells it (teaches) it like it is", making him very controversial. Do a search and read my review of his course last year on NortheastShooters.com (I don't think I posted it here), your thoughts are very much like mine.

    As for his legal problems:

    - I was a Reserve PO for 18 years and a close personal friend of our late chief during part of that time (until cancer unfortunately led to his early retirement and death). I got to hear both sides of some stories that no other officers (reserve or FT) did, as I went out to lunch with the chief frequently and sat and shot the bull with him a couple times/week.

    - Dept rules were that if an officer was sick, they couldn't even leave their home to go to the doctor without notifying the PD! I am aware of some surveillance that some of our chiefs (I served under 3 chiefs before I left the PD in 1996) did on his own troops when they were out due to illness or injury. Easy to get "caught" doing something when you aren't allowed to blow your nose without permission. We don't even watch our released sex offenders as closely as we watched our own troops! This was NOT unique to a particular PD, but SOP for many departments (and may still be the case).

    - Personal experience when I worked for DEC and someone set me up to try to get me fired for "conflict of interest" violations proved to me how easy it is to nail someone for minor mickey mouse stuff. As an officer of the DEC Computer Club I was setting up the sales of word processing software that would work on some DEC computers where DEC had NO similar solution on the market. I had met with some internal groups to assure that I was NOT in conflict of interest and was assured that this was the case. The DEC Computer Club died out and I took over the project personally, kept in touch with internal groups . . . kept getting assured of no conflict of interest. My VP and another VP were both aware of the software sales (done off hours) and my VP sent his best engineer to evaluate the software. Suddenly someone in HR "discovers" what I was doing and decided that I was violating corporate policy and should be fired. Corporate Investigations met with my management (who were fully aware) and then myself. When I turned over the documentation they requested, the DEC Legal Dept decided that I had tried to ensure no conflict and decided not to fire me but only reprimand me and get me to "cease and desist". It was a close call and in a corporate environment somewhat similar to what I've learned from both sides of Gabe's story. Someone told him that he could do training (no conflict) while out injured and someone else decided that it amounted to WC fraud! Only if he had serious documentation that upper mgmt said it was OK (sounds like his OK was verbal) could he have saved his ass on this issue. I had Email documentation, sounds like Gabe didn't . . . thus he got nailed and had a choice of bankruptcy and perhaps jail for himself and Wife or take a plea deal! MANY who take a plea deal are INNOCENT OF ANY CRIME, but do it to merely survive and move on with their lives.

    I believe Gabe and can personally relate to his problems. He's one of the best trainers out there if you want to learn how to survive an armed confrontation! And I don't foresee a need to have your firearms trainers in a courtroom any time in our lives. Their certificates and a syllabus is the most that one should need to prove "proper training" . . . and besides, since his training attitude is so controversial, personal testimony (putting his legal problems aside) could turn off many jurors.

  15. #29
    Ex Member Array Phil Elmore's Avatar
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    Gabe produces good material that is of benefit to one's martial training. What else need anyone know but that?

  16. #30
    New Member Array Suarez Intl's Avatar
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    Gabe's Story

    Greetings gents,

    I generally stay on my own forum - Warrior Talk. Even there I've been scarce as of late. I have just returned from a month's training with Carabinieri in North Italy, the counter-terrorist Scorpion Unit in Zurich and Swiss Army in Switzerland, and then my favorite - Armed Americans in Washington and New Hampshire. I barely have time for personal training an sleep, much less cyber-chatting.

    Sharp Phil alerted me to this thread.

    The gent who "got on the mailing list" got a free newsletter with various articles on topics of interest. The mailing list itself is up to 20 thousand and the only way you get on it is to ask. Those who wish to be removed are done so immediately. Don't want to be there, send me an email and you will be gone.

    In any case, there is all manner of stupid information floating around the net. Usually it is passed around by people who would be extremely polite in a witnessless face to face. I have been bad-mouthed and maligned by the best and you know what? I'm still here and growing. 2007 is all locked up and I am taking dates for 2008!

    You want to read the real story, go to Warrior Talk (http://www.warriortalk.com) and do a search for Gabe's Story. You have to register to see it. I find that process keeps riff-raff out. Its long ago and I have no reason to be guarded about it, nor do I need to explain myself, nor apologize to anyone for anything. The event taught me what is really important in life and to distrust all authority. Why? Because I got to see how things really work.

    As for what I teach, well its very different. I am as far from "Modern Technique" as the Kalashnikov is from a flintlock.

    BTW, I would much rather teach private citizens with an open mind. I won't teach you how to "manage a threat in a politically correct, police chief approved manner".

    I teach you how to kill the other guy with your pistol by shooting him to the ground while moving off the line of attack. I promote high capacity pistols of any caliber and require concealment in all classes.

    I eschew "tactical clothing", and other wannabe gucci silliness promoted by my "colleagues". I keep no student records. I teach you point shooting, contact shooting and integrating hand to hand with the gun. I teach transitions to knife and stabbing him to the ground in a clinch.

    I allow any and all guns, shoulder holsters, cross draws, pocket carry, and you can shoot all the lead bullets you want at MY range. I am as politically correct as a leopard skin coat at a PETA convention.

    I prefer the Kalashnikov to the M4 and do not even own a 1911. I dress like a construction worker not a Spec Ops soldier ready for inspection, and teach my students to manage the Non Permissive Environment because their survival talkes precedence over any legalities that would compromise it. That and all sorts of other things that I teach makes traditional instructors cringe.

    Don't want to train with me because I'm an "outlaw"? Well you are right, I am. I'm also a pirate, a non-comformist, and an extremist. But my schedule seems to be filled with classes filled with students who like this sort of thing.

    Well, that is all I have to say. I hope I haven't offended anyone with my candor.

    Gabe Suarez
    http://www.suarezinternational.com
    http://www.warriortalk.com
    http://www.onesourcetactical.com

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