Gabe Suarez ?
This is a discussion on Gabe Suarez ? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Yeah QK, I've also heard some very positive things about Gabe's training.
I want to take a "local" course first to improve upon my (lack ...
July 27th, 2006 04:45 PM
Yeah QK, I've also heard some very positive things about Gabe's training.
I want to take a "local" course first to improve upon my (lack of) skills and training.
But Gabe is who I already decided to seek out for advanced training.
July 27th, 2006 05:21 PM
Let me tell you, most of these guys wear their back sides on their shoulders and they think they are mini gods. I tell ya what, when my Grandpa and all those older gentlemen were coming up way back in the days you did not have fancy training schools and stuff. All you had was maybe military training and the will to practice. I don't hold up any training or shooting so called guru.
Now, I am for getting basic pistol or rifle training, but spending 4 or 500.00 or more for some guy to show off, that's not for me. Why, because when it hits the fan it really comes down to your will to live and the amount of time you have spent mentally and physically preparing yourself. What would I do...spend that money on ammo and range time and maybe enter some move and shoot courses. I have yet to enter a move and shoot course, but I think time spent with Uncle Sam suffices for move and shoot. Just my 2Cents. Plus,,,,Gas is high you'll need that money to get to the range and buy yourself a cold sundrop when its over.
Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....
July 27th, 2006 09:01 PM
Absolutely! I learned more in a two day class with Gabe (Close Range Gunfighting) than I had learned in my previous 55 years. Sure he is controversial, but he teaches the truth.
July 27th, 2006 11:49 PM
Sorry but you are way off base!
You don't pay $4-500 to watch some trainer show off! When I took Gabe's (and others') courses we blew thru 7-800 rds in 3 days. The trainer shows you a move and then immediately expects the class to do that move and shoot.
I spent 18 years as a PT PO, qualified 2x/year (same as our FT POs)for most of those years (last few it was 1x/year) and burned up 100 rds/qual. We also shot from fixed positions, never moved while shooting or reloading.
I had a conversation ~6 months ago with a career Lt. Col. and he told me that they (USAF) qualify once every 2 years! and shoot a measily ~50 rds doing so. He joined a local gun club plus took a shooting course with one of these trainers you dis. He told me that they get their real firearms training IN THE SANDBOX AFTER THEY DEPLOY! Now I never served in the US Military, but I think this is nuts! BTW, said Lt. Col. was deployed a few months ago according to a mutual friend.
So maybe during WWII or VN they trained the Military before they put them in harms way, but these days they seem to be "economizing" on bullets and training until they "really need it"!
July 28th, 2006 12:12 AM
I think Gabe is a pretty straight up guy regardless of what negative comments some people have to say about him. His posting here supports that. Like many opposing viewpoints posted in forums, it's similar to the old Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge arguements. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong but everyone is willing to put forth their arguement. Hey, that's what makes the world an interesting place.
I have never trained with Gabe but one of these days I probably will. Gabe may not be for everybody, but from what I have read of him, he would be a very good choice for training. So would alot of other trainers, including Uncle Sam and some of our Grandpas....
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
July 28th, 2006 07:39 AM
Not to lead the topic astray, but it would be a mistake to assume the the USAF's standards for small arms training are representative of the rest of the Military.
Originally Posted by LenS
July 28th, 2006 08:11 AM
"Now, I am for getting basic pistol or rifle training, but spending 4 or 500.00 or more for some guy to show off, that's not for me."
You cannot pull generalized assumptions out of the air and make them applicable to a course of instruction that you obviously did not even bother to research.
I would be willing to bet that you did not even bother clicking on the Suarez International link to see what specific instruction was offered in his courses (for the money spent) before you made that statement.
That is unfair to Gabe and is called...talking from out where the sun don't shine.
Remember that many of our new Concealed Carry people have not had any prior military training but, are still (none the less) highly interested in advancing their personal self~defense skills and moving up to higher levels of effective defense.
BTW: Four or five hundred dollars worth of ammo is not a whole ton of center fire ammunition these days and you cannot just have a person stand up in front of a stationary paper target and have them "aim for the Bulls Eye" and morph like magic into an effective real life self~defensive shooter.
That is just plain silly talk.
July 28th, 2006 09:00 AM
I agree that there is no substitute from live training with a qualified instructor. People like Gabe (and many others) teach fighting and survival, not just marksmanship or gunhandling. Putting lots of rounds down range is only helpful if you are building proper skills--which you initially acquire through proper training.
BlueLion, I am not sure what you mean by taking a "move and shoot" course since Gabe and others in the category you seem to be describing are clearly proponents of shooting and moving off the line.
You may be satisified with your military training, however long ago, to civilian carry, but I would hazzard a guess that the military doesn't teach a lot of things that are critical to civilian concealed carry applications. Maybe you should take a course from a respected instructor and see what you may have been missing.
July 28th, 2006 09:37 AM
I get the email news letter, too.
The thing that impresses me most is that Gabe seems to be constantly testing and retesting his methods and beliefs.
I have found this to be rare among most instructors.
I am planning to take a course from him as soon as I can work out the time and the money (need to check with the Finance Director on that one).
If you're not getting the news letter, you should be. A lot of good stuff in there.
July 28th, 2006 09:58 AM
Ummmm. That's akin to saying that because you superglued a 3" cut on your forearm shut, you're ready and able to put in a chest tube. I hear what you're saying, and there are people out there who teach nothing of value and are simply out for the $$. But. A real trainer (do your research) will refine the skills you have, and (hopefully) offer some more "distilled" solutions to problems you may not have trained-in for previously.
Originally Posted by BlueLion
July 28th, 2006 10:26 AM
IMO, as with everything is life, there is no "ONE SIZE FITS ALL" to anything. we all read books, talk to people that have or have not "done that" and we get professional training. I don't think anyone here would limit themselves to ONE source for all their training input.
We all take what makes sense to us, or what works for us and our lifestyle. My idea's on what I should do if when this or that happens, comes from a wide range of sources. I have a mind set, and go into whatever training, reading an article, talking with someone, and compare that to what I have learned before, a few parts fit in and some are already set.
Basically, again IMO, take everything you get with a grain of salt. Keep what works and makes sense, and file the rest away for later review.
As far as his questionable past. That’s between he and the people he dealt with. I wouldn't refuse some baseball tips for my son from Pete Rose. I am looking forward to the training class coming up here in VA in early March next year with Gabe, and hope to gather the funds in time. FOF training with air soft, where you actually shoot armed attackers. Does it get any more real than that?
I have read one of his books, he gives creadit to a lot of people for coming up with the techniques that he is showing is not of his own design. seems like a pretty streight guy up to me.
"fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand
July 28th, 2006 10:30 AM
No matter what uniform a person wears, I WANT to know that EVERY Soldier, Sailor, Marine, Airman, etc. has the proper training, practice, and equipment to do the job and keep themselves and their comrades safe from being killed. OJT has it's place, but not when "incoming" are bullets flying in your direction.
Originally Posted by Blackhawk6
Whether it's military, LE or civilian . . . what Gabe drills into people in his classes is that if you are still standing in the same place when you fire at a perp, you WILL BE SHOT/STABBED by that perp. If you step off line as you fire (and are trained to make good shots while doing so), your odds of not getting hurt go up significantly.
All my LE training had officers standing in a stationary place, shooting stationary targets . . . fantasy land and not preparation for the "real world". As Gabe and others teach, when it hits the fan you will revert to "how you train" . . . so you be the judge as to whether or not such "move and shoot" training is worth the money (to potentially save your ass)?
July 28th, 2006 11:12 AM
As do I. My point is that if you are disasstisfied with the way a service trains its people, address your comments to that particular service rather than the Military as a whole. There are a number of people who work hard every day to ensure their people are properly equipped and trained to meet the demands of combat.
Originally Posted by LenS
July 28th, 2006 12:15 PM
I was addressing what I had been told, not trying to say that every unit or every service does things the same way. Since we have all sorts of troops trying to fight this war, I would like to know that ALL troops are properly trained in combat so that if the need arises they can extricate themselves and others (regardless of color of uniform) safely and otherwise execute their mission without harm to themselves. I don't think that is too much to ask for!
Originally Posted by Blackhawk6
To address a problem such as this, one needs hard evidence . . . something that I do not have. I have strictly anecdotal evidence from one friend (USAF Lt. Col. who is a gunny and practices frequently because he likes shooting . . . he's not a problem). I've heard similar stories here and there from friends who have relatives that served in the Sandbox, but again nothing that one could use as "hard evidence".
Also, I'm from PRM where NONE of our Congressional Delegation or Senators believe in self-defense or defense of our Country! Complain to them, even with hard evidence and they'd prefer that our troops carry nothing more than a stern expression on their faces!
It's the folks who served at high rank and retired and have high visibility as "advisors" and "military commentators" (I'm thinking of the guys on Fox News in particular) that can get facts, make noise that would actually be listened to at the Pentagon if enough noise is raised.
But, back to the topic of this thread . . .
- Gabe has been in 4 real shootouts as a cop, walked away from each of them and at least in some cases the perp was "bagged and tagged" . . . so he has walked the walk as well as talked the talk.
- He told us that in each shooting he went back to the scene a day later and played out what happened and how . . . an analysis of what happened and how he could learn from that for the next time.
- That is the sort of info he imparts in his techniques for training. When folks have different ways of doing things, he listens, observes and may change his training accordingly. He does NOT force his students to use his tactics/techniques if they feel more comfortable with alternative ways of doing things.
- He is exceedingly observant for any safety infractions, as the dynamics of his classes are such that there is no margin for error/stupidity.
July 28th, 2006 12:21 PM
I agree. Whether Gabe is great or terrible... those newsletters really make me think.
Originally Posted by PaulG
Check this out from today's newsletter - sure makes me question whether Gabe is right with this, but at least I'm thinking!!
"Centerline Draws - Appendix Draw, or Cross Draw are markedly faster than strong side hip or behind the back. The lines and amount of motion required to get the gun on target are dramatically less. Why these two modes of carry have been ignored by many is primarily due to artificial restrictions at competitions and competition-based shooting schools.."
Really? Crossdraw is faster than my hip???
Well, I don't actually know and now I'm wondering about it. As long as Gabe's stuff makes me rethink my positions, then I believe it's valuable. I may decide that I disagree, but at least I had to go into my head and come up with some reasoning.
One of these days, hopefully I'll get to attend his course.
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