Simple "Self-Training" Questions

This is a discussion on Simple "Self-Training" Questions within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm not yet able to pony up the coin for official training, so in the meantime, I practice on my own. History: Former Army guy, ...

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Thread: Simple "Self-Training" Questions

  1. #1
    Member Array GhostRed7's Avatar
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    Simple "Self-Training" Questions

    I'm not yet able to pony up the coin for official training, so in the meantime, I practice on my own.

    History: Former Army guy, new to handguns (not firearms...M16/M203/M60/MK19/etc...no problem LOL)

    I do have a few questions that may/may not be able to be answered on an interweb forum....but here goes:

    Caliber: .45 (and maybe a .38SPL...tbd)

    What distance should I be practicing at? I've tried everything from 5y to 25y with varying results (i can hit near center at all, but groups are uglier farther out naturally).

    What targets should I use for training? I've seen some of the training aid targets as well as silouettes, etc (my customer Ewok ones don't count :P ).

    Why are people against "learning" how to fire "sideways (Weaver stance maybe?)?" It's what's comfortable for me. Kinna like firing in prone w/out the ground (kind of..hard to explain). I'm all over the place if doing the "squared off/bent/etc" stance.

    Open to any & all other suggestions. I **WILL** be attending real classes & training at some point, but finances have to squared away first. I did have a LEO (detective) friend of the wife come out to train us one, but he told me "I really don't have much to see other than practice trigger squeeze."

    Thx in advance and mods if in wrong place, pls put it there.
    "Sir, could you please not bleed so much? I have to clean the store after they haul you off and I'd like the rest of my shift, to be, like, you know, better."

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostRed7 View Post
    I'm not yet able to pony up the coin for official training, so in the meantime, I practice on my own.

    History: Former Army guy, new to handguns (not firearms...M16/M203/M60/MK19/etc...no problem LOL)

    I do have a few questions that may/may not be able to be answered on an interweb forum....but here goes:

    Caliber: .45 (and maybe a .38SPL...tbd)

    What distance should I be practicing at? I personally train from "bad breath" distance out to about 20 feet. According to most knowledgeable folks, the majority of self defense gunfights occur from 7 - 21 feet range. I do take a few steady shots at longer distances but primarly as I've stated. I've tried everything from 5y to 25y with varying results (i can hit near center at all, but groups are uglier farther out naturally).

    What targets should I use for training? I personally use silouette targets that have the Tueller dots on the sides... I've seen some of the training aid targets as well as silouettes, etc (my customer Ewok ones don't count :P ).

    Why are people against "learning" how to fire "sideways (Weaver stance maybe?)?" It's what's comfortable for me. Kinna like firing in prone w/out the ground (kind of..hard to explain). I'm all over the place if doing the "squared off/bent/etc" stance. Target acquisition and shot placement is first priority, NOT stance. I train to shoot from all types of positions (bladed, squared, from concealment, supine, etc) as well as moving off the "X".

    Open to any & all other suggestions. I **WILL** be attending real classes & training at some point, but finances have to squared away first. I did have a LEO (detective) friend of the wife come out to train us one, but he told me "I really don't have much to see other than practice trigger squeeze."

    Thx in advance and mods if in wrong place, pls put it there.
    I've tried to give MY answers in BOLD above. I do encourage you to save your money and at the earliest possible time, get PROFESSIONAL training from a REPUTABLE trainer/facility. Let me recommend a couple of books that are good reading as well: Principles of Personal Defense by Jeff Cooper and Surgical Speed Shooting by Andy Stanford. These are just a couple for starters. Keep in mind, this is MY opinion only.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
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    Of course, get professional training as soon as possible, but learn to work with what you have. Where I live now, I'm limited to an indoor range with pretty strict safety rules and requirements to shoot slowly (at least one second between shots), no holster/drawing work at all, etc. I do the best I can to train realistically given those constraints, and within my ammo budget.

    My normal circuit is as follows:

    With my primary carry (M&Pc .357sig):

    30 rounds, two handed at 25 feet
    30 rounds, two handed at 70-75 feet (max end of the range)
    20 rounds, right hand only 25 feet
    20 rounds, left hand only 25 feet

    I shoot as quickly as they will let me. I basically chase the front site, as opposed to going through the funamentals of breathing, trigger squeeze etc like you would on an Army PMI type range. Basically, I try to replicate how it would be if I had to shoot in a critical situation where I didn't have time for perfect sight picture, breathing, squeeze etc. The only thing I really worry about is getting the front site center mass and hitting trigger pulls at the reset point. That is also why I make sure to practice one handed with each hand, to simulate a situation where one or the other is injured or being used to keep one of my kids down, etc.

    After I get done with that, I usually shoot another 50-100 rounds with either my 9mm Sig P228 or it's .22lr conversion kit, or occasionally the MDE (because I need to, I hate shooting it). When I do that, I go back more to the precise, slow, fundamental-type shooting.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
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    Sig P228; Micro Desert Eagle; S&W M&P Compact .357 sig

  5. #4
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    These should help you get started until you get some extra pro training dollars rolling in.
    Start slow. Don't allow a perceived need for speed get ahead of your skill level.

















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    If you're practicing at a range where you don't have to buy their targets, 8" paper plates are fine targets. I like to hang a pair of them as far out as 25 yards... that way, picking up a second target (new sight picture) becomes part of my practice.

    I would start at 7-10 yards to begin with. When you can keep all your shots on the paper plates, push them 3 yards further out. End your practice with something easy like shooting at 7 yards... that's a mental part, which helps your confidence stay high.
    Smitty
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    Member Array GhostRed7's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info all....greatly appreciated!!! I have to bookmark those vids.
    "Sir, could you please not bleed so much? I have to clean the store after they haul you off and I'd like the rest of my shift, to be, like, you know, better."

  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    As to what I would practice is some hard on the sights from 10-25 yds. You need to be able to hit COM chest at least from these distances.

    Then I would buy these 2 DVDs and practice what is on them, this is at the range of most gunfights.

    Introduction To Point Shooting DVD and POINT SHOOTING PROGRESSIONS DVD with Roger Phillips

    You will be learning to shoot and move like what is shown on the video on the website.

    Fight Focused Concepts - CHECK OUR SCHEDULE FOR*4 DAY VALUE CLASSES*NEW CLASSHRO CQB - Fighting in Structures(Limit 12 students)Private Training FacilityJune 4-5, 2011Las Vegas, Nevada*

    Then save your money to get to Roger's Point Shooting Progressions class as soon as possible. This training will give you the best chance of winning a gunfight. It will not only help you to get the first hit on the BG but teach you to move off the X helping you not to take hits yourself.

    I have been to this class not just once but twice and learned something both times. Money well spent in my opinion.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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    http://www.pistol-training.com .......... you can pick up a lot of self help here.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostRed7 View Post
    I'm not yet able to pony up the coin for official training, so in the meantime, I practice on my own.

    History: Former Army guy, new to handguns (not firearms...M16/M203/M60/MK19/etc...no problem LOL)

    I do have a few questions that may/may not be able to be answered on an interweb forum....but here goes:

    Caliber: .45 (and maybe a .38SPL...tbd)

    What distance should I be practicing at? I've tried everything from 5y to 25y with varying results (i can hit near center at all, but groups are uglier farther out naturally).

    What targets should I use for training? I've seen some of the training aid targets as well as silouettes, etc (my customer Ewok ones don't count :P ).

    Why are people against "learning" how to fire "sideways (Weaver stance maybe?)?" It's what's comfortable for me. Kinna like firing in prone w/out the ground (kind of..hard to explain). I'm all over the place if doing the "squared off/bent/etc" stance.

    Open to any & all other suggestions. I **WILL** be attending real classes & training at some point, but finances have to squared away first. I did have a LEO (detective) friend of the wife come out to train us one, but he told me "I really don't have much to see other than practice trigger squeeze."

    Thx in advance and mods if in wrong place, pls put it there.


    http://youtu.be/X2Dzm5IfRls

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    For another drill, take two pie plates and place them 12-15 inches apart on a cardboard target base, tape or staple them on. Then starting with your gun on the lane table in front of you pick up the gun and shoot one plate with 2-3 rounds then quickly transition to the second with 2-3 rounds. Do this at 3, 7, 10 yards with several reps at each distance. To add stress, use a shot timer and have a second person behind you run the timer. Most gun ranges do not allow draw and shoot so that is why I said get gun from table in front of you.
    Praise the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle --- Psalm 144
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  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    your doing better shooting with a open, angled stance possibly cause you are right handed and left eye dominant. by angeling your body, you bring your strong arm more to you left shoulder and the gun slides under your left eye. or, you just do better this way. martial arts training has you to stand at an angle to your subject cause this allows for better balance and ability to move in most any direction without tripping over your own feet. practice what works for you. many instructors ( like the military) want everyone to do 'it' in the same way. i hope when you find the time and money to take a formal class you have an instructor who will work with what you are good at doing--and be able to fine tune that and add to it.

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