Long gun to pistol transition - Systema method

Long gun to pistol transition - Systema method

This is a discussion on Long gun to pistol transition - Systema method within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I like this: YouTube - Transition From Primary To Secondary - The SYSTEMA Way... Works with a simple 2-point sling, and puts the long gun ...

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Thread: Long gun to pistol transition - Systema method

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Long gun to pistol transition - Systema method

    I like this:

    YouTube - Transition From Primary To Secondary - The SYSTEMA Way...

    Works with a simple 2-point sling, and puts the long gun over your back and out of the way. It also allows you to draw your handgun WHILE you are slinging your long gun.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    heres the problem with that theroy. in closed quarters that would be impossible in certain areas, also it now puts the weapon in a place where you can not quickly holster, reload and bring it back in, with a single point sling on an AK the transition is much faster, drop the rifle, it swings down and to the side out of the way and as soon as you let go of the pistol grip you bring your hand back to draw. much quicker and easier to practice, learn, and use on the street
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    Wow...

    If you have a proper sling on the primary weapon, and are actually using it... you drop the primary and it is safely slung and out of the way as you go for the secondary. But hey, what do I know... just a civilian geek shooter who's only been exposed to one trainer (3x3 days, about 5000 rounds worth).
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    If I am understanding correctly, this only works if the weapon isn't properly slung in the first place?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Member Array JB-Norcal's Avatar
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    Looks awkward and slow to me. I'll use Suarez instead of Systema for my transition. Whatever works for you.

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Well...I didn't say this was the only way...nor the best way.

    However...for the average civilian with a simple two-point sling...who may not have the time to "sling up" properly in a reactive scenario, this is worth considering.

    I do like keeping the long gun over my back when it is not being used - presumably, because it is temporarily out of action for whatever reason. Having it dangling in front or to the side tends to get in the way when you go to a knee, or prone, or need to crawl, etc. Of course, a lot of that will depend on the long gun used - notice I said "long gun" and not "carbine." Not everyone uses a short carbine for defense - some folks only own a shotgun, possibly one with a longer trap or skeet barrel. Keep in mind that not everyone is as tacticool as all the folks here are, and not everyone can afford to buy all the goodies.

    For all of you who like to throw rocks...instead of criticizing, how about posting some videos of the methods you seem to prefer, so everyone here can learn? Let's try to keep it positive, OK?
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Sorry, 10th, didn't seem to come off as attacking - was honestly curious if this system was designed around the idea that you wouldn't carry the rifle slung, but rather that you would ONLY use the sling at all when transitioning. It may very well work in some situations, but it's hard to understand why - if you already have a sling on it - you wouldn't, well, USE the sling before you needed to transition.

    I agree that having the rifle slung "in front" poses its own set of considerations, but I don't see how any method can be faster/simpler than (to put it very simply) "dropping" the long gun and going for the pistol. With any decent sling, this would be my first choice for transition drills. (And before you bring out the flamethrowers, I know it's not exactly "dropping" the long gun, but a "controlled drop" is the simplest and most direct way to describe the procedure that I am most familiar with.)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    JD
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    I think the issue here is that it's a method of retaining the rifle with a 2 POINT sling, not a single or three point sling where you're "wearing" the rifle and can just let it go.

    Not everyone likes 1pt and 3pt slings and this may be a good practice for those with firearms that can't accommodate some of the fancy slings, like maybe that combat lever action thingy...

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    Fair enough, JD, but I use a two-point sling. And by "use" I mean I actually have the rifle attached to my body via the sling...I suppose there are long guns that don't have the (easy) capability to be slung "forward," but there are mods for almost anything... :)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  10. #10
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Fair enough, JD, but I use a two-point sling. And by "use" I mean I actually have the rifle attached to my body via the sling...I suppose there are long guns that don't have the (easy) capability to be slung "forward," but there are mods for almost anything... :)
    Good to know, shorty AR? What kind of sling and how do you wear it? I've never found a good method when using two point slings to "wear" the rifle that didn't end up with a real floppy gun when let go of, then again most of that was with the M16A2 and the issue web sling.

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    I use a VTAC, and yes, relatively short AR style rifles. The issue sling, worn on the heel of the butt and the underside of the barrel or an A2, is indeed unwieldy and impractical for anything other than "over the back" carry - not what we're looking for in "combat" situations. I like the VTAC because it can be kept relatively tight (so it doesn't flop as much when released, among other things), but can be very quickly loosened for transitions to the opposite shoulder (or for whatever reason).
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    For a civilian, I would imagine most defensive situations will be at close range. One of the advantages to not "wearing" the long gun attached to you, is that it is easier to use as an impact weapon. Of course, not being attached to you increases the risk of a gun grab, but you can't have everything.

    In Somalia, I never had to shoot anyone with my M16 (fortunately), but I indeed used it on many occasions as an impact weapon (think crowd control). I never "wore" my M16 back then - but we didn't have the modern high-speed gear either.

    For the average civilian with a standard two-point sling, I think this technique has some merit. Especially if you do not want to "wear" the long gun.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Senior Member Array CR Williams's Avatar
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    One other potential issue that might arise with an 'attached' longarm is that it is, indeed, attached. If you have the weapon in hand but not on an attached sling, someone gets in and grabs it, you have the option to let go the weapon and go to another attack method while they have their hands full. If the weapon is on an attached sling, then control of the weapon offers an opportunity to the attacker to control you. This has happened to some people, that they got slung around by the gun. Also, if they're in contact range, it appears easier to strike with the weapon if it's not attached to you, though I think this varies with the kind of sling attachment you've got.

    I am informed that some units either restrict sling use to admin situations or don't let their fighters even have slings on the rifles, just to make sure they're in-hand when needed. Can someone confirm or deny this?
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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    JD - Exactly what I had in mind when I saw this...my Marlin 336 lever gun.

    CR - When I was in, we only used the sling for admin purposes. Otherwise, the M16 was in our hands, or no more than arm's length away. Of course, we didn't have a sidearm either. Back then it was either/or - you were issued a rifle, or a pistol, but not both...depending on your role.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    We didn't have "tactical" slings when I was first in, so we made our own versions, attaching the slings with 100MPH tape and 550 cord (among other methods). They were never the best, but they were better than nothing. The newest, purpose-built combat slings are pretty handy devices, indeed - I use them for almost all applications.

    As for gun grabs and the like - yes, they're a concern. Like most things, however, there are techniques that can be learned and practiced that reduce this vulnerability a great deal.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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