What Does Competency Mean To You?

What Does Competency Mean To You?

This is a discussion on What Does Competency Mean To You? within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; there is more to carrying a gun than buying it and carrying it. to you, what is the level of training and ability that you ...

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Thread: What Does Competency Mean To You?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    What Does Competency Mean To You?

    there is more to carrying a gun than buying it and carrying it.
    to you, what is the level of training and ability that you feel is minimum to carry it safely and to if necessary, use it effectively?
    pocket guns are of course different than IWB or OWB. with a pocket rig you may feel a heightened awareness and put your hand in your pocket: skill and time to draw is nil though there is still the issue of your accuracy. IWB and OWB require cover garments ( where concealment is by law) and thus more training.

    i have put forth in other posts what i consider 'competent' and 'truly skilled'
    and i would appreciate hearing from you all what it means to you. thank you.
    ------------------------------------
    NO WAY am i advocating training standards. please, lets not go there.

    many people own and chose to wear a gun and that is our Constitutional Right.
    i am simply curious as to what those who carry and who have given thought to perhaps someday needing it,
    what they consider competency with this tool to be.

    not if you have it (yet), just what you consider it to be.

    again, thank you for your thoughts.
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Just off the top of my head, I would say being able to SAFELY load, unload, field strip and reassemble the weapon, and able to put 3 of 3 in a human silhouette at 7 yards under no stress...for a minimum to get a CCW permit. Now as for the training...I believe there should be more of how and when you may defend yourself (use the weapon) within boundaries of the law. Tough question!
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
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  3. #3
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Bare minimum? Hit what you actually aimed at. Be able to reload and clear malfunctions. And not take all day to do it.

    Competent and Skilled are two different things. A competent musician can play music you recognize. A Skilled musician plays music you'd go buy the CD. Think your teenage son playing the guitar vs Eddie Van Halen playing the guitar.

    A competent driver can get to and from work without running people off the road or hitting other drivers or pedestrians. A Skilled driver might be a NASCAR driver.

    A "competent " gunman can operate his pistol safely and hit what he aims at. A Skilled gunman does it at a whole other level.

    Here is a simple drill.......

    This drill is a simple test of skill that we can use to determine someone's grasp of the fundamentals of defensive shooting. It tests drawing and moving out of the way, firing multiple shots and hitting what you aim at, reloading , reacquiring the appropriate sight picture and firing multiple shots again. It is NOT intended as a "test to see if you can get a permit". It is a drill that establishes where you current skill level is.

    The drill....Target at 7 yards. Target is 8" circle. Pistol loaded with 6 rounds and a spare mag with 3rounds on person. Pass or fail ALL rounds must be in the 8" circle to count.

    At the buzzer you side step off the X and fire to slide lock. When gun stops you sidestep again as you reload and fire 3 rounds in the other mag. Draw, 9 rounds ,and a reload .Par time for "Competent gunman " might be 12 seconds.

    A "Skilled gunman"generally shoots it in 6 to 7 seconds. Some shoot it even faster.

    Competent is a "baseline " of functionality not a statement of preparedness. No one ever wished they had LESS skill when they got in a fight.

    In Tenenssee the "standard" is hitting a B27 target 33 out of 48 times....ANYWHERE on the target and passing a written exam about safety , cleaning and state law regarding deadly force. It is MINIMAL and I have NEVER had a student fail.
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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    Just off the top of my head, I would say being able to SAFELY load, unload, field strip and reassemble the weapon, and able to put 3 of 3 in a human silhouette at 7 yards under no stress...for a minimum to get a CCW permit. Now as for the training...I believe there should be more of how and when you may defend yourself (use the weapon) within boundaries of the law. Tough question!
    Something similiar to this...


    However, I would NOT want anything like this mandated as a condition to exercise a right.
    Last edited by SIGguy229; June 10th, 2011 at 02:30 AM.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    As long as someone knows the laws regarding SD in their area and can safely load, unload, handle, and fire a gun, they are competent as far as I'm concerned. More training would be a good thing for them, but it isn't completely necessary.

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    Questions like this may seem innocent and on topic, but they also show a mindset that there SHOULD be a standard. Now, common sense dictates that if one wants to use any tool to best effect, one must practice/train with said tool. The problem is that not all of us can be at the same level of skill or training. Does that mean that the individual who is "deficient" by YOUR standard has no right to self-protection? Just because I don't have the training or skill to build a house by "hand", does that mean that I should not be able to own or use a hammer? Better yet, what level of competence should be required to exercise our 1st Ammendment Rights?

    I'm not trying to be a jerk here. Just providing food for thought.
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    Senior Member Array ICTsnub's Avatar
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    With cost, and time and trouble to get a permit in KS, I would think very few holders got theirs frivolously, and I am ok with the minimum quals required here.

    Interesting that a couple replies suggest 100% to pass, I'd be curious if any police departments were that strict. You sure don't have to do that good to drive a car around here!
    I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.

  8. #8
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Just like we cannot MAKE all people be useful members of society we cannot MAKE someone want to be more competent than they want to be.

    We agree 100%. There should not be a "test" to exercise a right.

    But that brings up a whole different argument that gets into whether the STATES have a right to regulate carrying of arms in public. And several STATE constitutions (Tennessee included) make that provision. So while you are free to OWN and USE firearms, the carrying of them in public (due to the state constitution-like it or not) can be regulated by the state legislature. But I seriously doubt the OP wanted to get into those issues.
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  9. #9
    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICTsnub View Post
    With cost, and time and trouble to get a permit in KS, I would think very few holders got theirs frivolously, and I am ok with the minimum quals required here.

    Interesting that a couple replies suggest 100% to pass, I'd be curious if any police departments were that strict. You sure don't have to do that good to drive a car around here!
    I'll reword my post. I was not suggesting a "test " to get a CCW. I was giving an example of a drill that "competent" shooters might shoot in a certain time frame and that more "Skilled" shooters would shoot much faster.

    I was illustrating the difference between being merely "competent" and having some true skill.
    Randy Harris
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    TRAIN with me....http://www.suarezinternationalstore....px?find=harris

  10. #10
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    I certainly don’t train/practice like I should and I know that’s not a good thing’. Although I do have forty-odd years with firearms including handguns, I consider myself competent but lazy. Insomuch as ‘skill’ goes, I’d say that anyone who shoots often is perhaps more skilled than myself.
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  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    "Roadrunner" makes a good point about exercising a right to self-defense. There is a difference between owning a gun for self-defense and carrying one in public. I do think anyone carrying does "owe" it to the public he carries in and around to be safe with that weapon.
    I know there are NO qualifications on a permit here in Florida...and there really needs to be, we have 2 or 3 ND's a week reported in the news here every week, most are posted on this forum. God only knows how many idiots are shooting holes in their walls and floors and refridgerators and are not reporting it. I don't know about your State or States but Florida has a huge problem with people not knowing anything about guns, no training, no idea of gun safety and they go buy a gun, (granted it's their right) take a 2 hour course at a gun show which only requires them to fire 1 round and they are issued a permit. Thats why they are ND-ing all over the place, in cars, in restaurants, and movie theatres. It will bring HEAT down on all responsible gun owners and if it continues to get worse we will eventually lose the right to carry. The "muppets" and sheeple and do-gooders will see to it. Just FACT plain and simple. Guys PLEASE understand I am the last person that would deny someone their gun rights, There has got to be some degree of safe gun handling exercised, and "they" don't seem to be getting it.
    I don't think skilled is as important as safe, and in my book safe is probably the biggest part of competence.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner71 View Post
    Questions like this may seem innocent and on topic, but they also show a mindset that there SHOULD be a standard. Now, common sense dictates that if one wants to use any tool to best effect, one must practice/train with said tool. The problem is that not all of us can be at the same level of skill or training. Does that mean that the individual who is "deficient" by YOUR standard has no right to self-protection? Just because I don't have the training or skill to build a house by "hand", does that mean that I should not be able to own or use a hammer? Better yet, what level of competence should be required to exercise our 1st Ammendment Rights?

    I'm not trying to be a jerk here. Just providing food for thought.
    I'm not saying that they should HAVE to do this and that to get a permit, but they do have a responsibility to be safe. That's all I'm concerned with. I didn't have to take a special class or anything to get my CWP. I simply handed in my application with a copy of my hunter safety certificate and I was good to go. IMO, you shouldn't even have to have the hunter safety certificate to get one, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be familiar with your weapon and be competent in the safe handling of it. It's more of a personal responsibility than anything.

  13. #13
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    Someone who doesn't entertain notions of warning shots.

    In all seriousness, competency with USING a firearm is, in my opinion, a lot different than competency to CARRY a firearm. Just because you are a good shot and have fun plinking in your back yard doesn't mean your ready to carry a gun. Six year-olds can shoot well but they aren't ready for the emotional, moral and critical thinking involved in CARRYING a firearm for self defense. (Well, some of them might be more ready than some of the people who DO carry guns.. but that's another story.)

    Yes, to be competent in the use of a firearm should be a must. And a lot of people have already given good examples of a competent USER of a firearm. But, to me, a competent carrier is one who understands deescalation, patience, can critically think of scenarios and the ramifications of his/her actions should s/he decide to act, they understand laws and pass up being showy and confrontational for being the man in the shadows. They will stand there and take insults all day (even insults to wives/husbands/family/country) knowing they aren't worth a life. But they understand the willingness to live and to fight when they are actually lethally threatened.

    Competency to carry a firearm, for me, is more of a mindset than a set of prescribed skills though, certainly one should also be competent in the use of a firearm, of course.

    The problem, of course, is that no one can exactly judge another person's mindset and we have to trust that if they are competent in the use of a firearm and of legal age that they are competent enough to carry that firearm. Sometimes we are sadly mistaken but a good majority of the time people understand what they are taking upon themselves and do their best to be competent carriers.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array ICTsnub's Avatar
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    Yeah, what she said!

    I guess I'm picking nits about competency, and proficiency.

    Lots of folks are more proficient than me, but I am competent, even though on an off day, I might not complete a drill 100%, who knows? I just hate that it might label me incompetent, that sounds so legal.
    I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I'm proficient with every gun I carry,or own.I know several people that haven't fired a round since they qualified,and have actually seen people show up at a CHL class with a spanking new pistol in the box that has never been cleaned or shot thinking that the Instructor is going to teach them how to load and shoot the gun
    Being competent to me means,being able name and know what all the important gun parts are,slide catch/release,manual thumb safety,grip safety,being able to clear a jam quickly and get the gun up and running,being able to swap out mags while maintaining eyes on target,being able to effectively hit the target with every round
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