Martial arts for self defense.

This is a discussion on Martial arts for self defense. within the Defensive Carry & Tactical Training forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by gruntingfrog Before I begin, I must say I am in no way attempting to disparage Aikido. I've always thought it was an ...

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  1. #31
    Ex Member Array G19inLV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gruntingfrog View Post
    Before I begin, I must say I am in no way attempting to disparage Aikido. I've always thought it was an elegant martial art and have been interested in taking classes for a while, so I'm asking a legitimate question that I would like to know the answer to.

    Every time I see an Aikido video like this one, it seems as if the participants are going along with the throw or move. It seems too effortless. I've never seen anyone appear to attempt to stop the throw by striking, locking legs, or any other defensive counter taught in many martial arts. Is it simply that these are demonstrations not live sparring? Or is it that the moves are that effective when performed by a skilled practitioner? I can only assume there are counters to these moves taught in Aikido, so why don't I ever see them?

    I'm sure I could keep peppering you all with questions, so I'll just start there. Thanks!
    Usually what you see is a demo. The Uke (bad guy) has to go along with it and practice ukemi (the falls and rolls) or else they will get hurt. When I first started aikido, it was a new school where everyone but the Godan (5th deg black) Sensei was a newbie. It took a little bit to get the falls and rolls down, and believe me, it hurt when you didn't do it right and resist. That is why people have to "play along", it's easy to get hurt. One time we had a walk in who trained in BBJ, and he wouldn't relax and kept tensing up, he learned the hard way why we go along with it..he was kind of being smart before. It wasn't on purpose, but he thought he could counter everything and resist. Trust me, you don't want to resist a Godan who trained in Japan with O'Sensei.

    Also, post 26 of this thread has great info.

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  3. #32
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    I'm going to stay out of this conversation to the most part;

    But , "it looks so easy like they are cooperating " , it is not because it doesn't or won't hurt, it's because on some of those if you resist, you will find out what real pain is all about, and be crying like a baby for mercy.

    Some I have learned are 'easy', and can be done 'easily', but..... ask the guy who it's being done to what they think. You will hear things like "OMG that hurt .... " with several other expressive adjectives.

    There is one, that the manner you have them , any pressure from your thumb and opposing pressure from your hand movement, can cause extruciating pain..... but it sure looks easy. But believe me, if someone has me in that hold, I will glady do anything they want me to. I have shown it to some people who thought it could not be for real, "do it to me, let me see". Then they understand.
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Yes - It is Aikido. I've also done some Karate but I really didn't find it all that useful. Karate is more about kicking and hitting things. Aikido is more about joint-locks and hand-to-hand type stuff. I was really skeptical when I first went to class. A friend of mine had pressured me to go for years. I thought all this stuff was hollywood and wasn't really that effective. But the instructor encouraged me to try several different attacks on him, even with weapons like a long stick. I was hesitant at first because I was afraid I'd hurt him. But I found out really quick that this stuff is very effective. What you don't see in this video is the pain that is caused by these joint locks. When you see somebody fall to the floor and somebody is still holding their hand or wrist in a lock, it HURTS! and it is impossible to get from that lock until the person lets you. You probably wouldn't think so by looking at this video, though.
    Cool, I dabbled in Aikido back in 2008 when I went to live with my sister who was studying art in Toronto for three months. I studied Yoshinkan style Aikido, though (it was founded by one of Ueshiba's students.) I intended to come back home and work for a few months until I had saved enough money to go back and continue studying, but that didn't work out and there's no dojo around here. I really want to get back into it and I'm thinking about going to Japan to take the Senshusei course (it's a concentrated program designed to make you a black belt in a year and give you a certification to teach the art.)

  5. #34
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    All schools are different, so remember that. But in general loose terms, the job of the "uke" or attacker in a martial arts context is to give a solid, honest attack.

    The uke fails if he or she cooperates or anticipates or fakes the attack in some manner such that instead of a self-defense application what happens on the floor is akin to a dance.

    For example, I might ask my uke: "Come at me with a hard, two-handed shove." If I make any kind of mistake, I could very well wind up on my back, dazed. That is, the shove won't be weak, the uke won't pull it or go easy if I fail. Same with a punch, a knife stab, whatever.

    The thing is, the uke won't pause halfway through a shove and send me a haymaker. That's a sparring or freestyle exercise. If you train for FoF, a similar ethic normally applies. You're trying to learn something, and your partner is there to help you master the concept.

    In practice, it's much harder to be a good uke than it is to be the defender.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    All schools are different, so remember that. But in general loose terms, the job of the "uke" or attacker in a martial arts context is to give a solid, honest attack.

    The uke fails if he or she cooperates or anticipates or fakes the attack in some manner such that instead of a self-defense application what happens on the floor is akin to a dance.

    For example, I might ask my uke: "Come at me with a hard, two-handed shove." If I make any kind of mistake, I could very well wind up on my back, dazed. That is, the shove won't be weak, the uke won't pull it or go easy if I fail. Same with a punch, a knife stab, whatever.

    The thing is, the uke won't pause halfway through a shove and send me a haymaker. That's a sparring or freestyle exercise. If you train for FoF, a similar ethic normally applies. You're trying to learn something, and your partner is there to help you master the concept.

    In practice, it's much harder to be a good uke than it is to be the defender.
    I would frequently stop my technique and tell the uke..."No, attack me like you mean it." Most techniques really need their forward momentum in order to work...and a grab where they just stick their hand out isn't going to work.

  7. #36
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    I think Martial Arts for self defense is good. I fully intend to enroll our son in some form of MA when he gets old enough to understand and I would like to join him. I think you can learn a lot from those kinds of classes, not to mention you need to get stronger and quicker and in the right mindset.

    However, I know that not all MAs are created equal and there have been a number of "martial artists" who have gotten their tail-ends handed to them by average street thugs who don't play by the rules and aren't above biting, scratching, kicking while down, or taking incredibly cheap shots.

    If there were a Krav Maga center around here I would be enrolled tomorrow! I like their no-nonsense approach to self defense fighting.

    I do agree that some people who carry guns are completely delusional about their guns. They believe that it is the begin all and end all of defense and that no matter what the circumstance they will be able to draw and defend themselves with a firearm. This is not the case. And in some situations it can make things much worse.

    Having tools to defend yourself sans a gun and the know-how to decide when to use one over the other or in combination with the other is very important.

    I think it's also very important to learn how to properly gun fight in close proximity to an attacker. Learning how to draw without having it stuffed or taken away or deflected. Learning how to protect against a grab. Learning how to fight open hand WHILE accessing a firearm.

    Even if we practice drawing and shooting at close distances (0-3 feet) we are fooling ourselves if we think a bad guy is just going to stand there and let himself get shot. They will move. They will try to grab a gun and wrestle it away. They will deflect. And, yes, even with revolvers as well as semi-autos you may not get a shot off if the cylinder is stopped or the slide is pushed out of battery. Now you're fighting for your life as well as for your gun. Those are bad places to be in.

    A gun is one tool I can/will use in self defense ... I'm actively trying to better my training to use it appropriately and timely with other tools.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I think Martial Arts for self defense is good. I fully intend to enroll our son in some form of MA when he gets old enough to understand and I would like to join him. I think you can learn a lot from those kinds of classes, not to mention you need to get stronger and quicker and in the right mindset.

    However, I know that not all MAs are created equal and there have been a number of "martial artists" who have gotten their tail-ends handed to them by average street thugs who don't play by the rules and aren't above biting, scratching, kicking while down, or taking incredibly cheap shots.

    If there were a Krav Maga center around here I would be enrolled tomorrow! I like their no-nonsense approach to self defense fighting.

    I do agree that some people who carry guns are completely delusional about their guns. They believe that it is the begin all and end all of defense and that no matter what the circumstance they will be able to draw and defend themselves with a firearm. This is not the case. And in some situations it can make things much worse.

    Having tools to defend yourself sans a gun and the know-how to decide when to use one over the other or in combination with the other is very important.

    I think it's also very important to learn how to properly gun fight in close proximity to an attacker. Learning how to draw without having it stuffed or taken away or deflected. Learning how to protect against a grab. Learning how to fight open hand WHILE accessing a firearm.

    Even if we practice drawing and shooting at close distances (0-3 feet) we are fooling ourselves if we think a bad guy is just going to stand there and let himself get shot. They will move. They will try to grab a gun and wrestle it away. They will deflect. And, yes, even with revolvers as well as semi-autos you may not get a shot off if the cylinder is stopped or the slide is pushed out of battery. Now you're fighting for your life as well as for your gun. Those are bad places to be in.

    A gun is one tool I can/will use in self defense ... I'm actively trying to better my training to use it appropriately and timely with other tools.
    You might want to remind folks, with a link, to your experience learning to use the TDI. MA is a larger base of knowledge than H2H. It includes things like knife skills and even firearms skills--though these are seldom touched on and are viewed separately as FOF training.

    Also, some new participants would benefit from a link to your article about taking on a MA instructor shortly after you moved to IA; at a SD demo for women, if I recall correctly. It was a great story with lots of important info beyond your personal experience.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I think Martial Arts for self defense is good. I fully intend to enroll our son in some form of MA when he gets old enough to understand and I would like to join him. I think you can learn a lot from those kinds of classes, not to mention you need to get stronger and quicker and in the right mindset.

    However, I know that not all MAs are created equal and there have been a number of "martial artists" who have gotten their tail-ends handed to them by average street thugs who don't play by the rules and aren't above biting, scratching, kicking while down, or taking incredibly cheap shots.

    If there were a Krav Maga center around here I would be enrolled tomorrow! I like their no-nonsense approach to self defense fighting.

    I do agree that some people who carry guns are completely delusional about their guns. They believe that it is the begin all and end all of defense and that no matter what the circumstance they will be able to draw and defend themselves with a firearm. This is not the case. And in some situations it can make things much worse.

    Having tools to defend yourself sans a gun and the know-how to decide when to use one over the other or in combination with the other is very important.

    I think it's also very important to learn how to properly gun fight in close proximity to an attacker. Learning how to draw without having it stuffed or taken away or deflected. Learning how to protect against a grab. Learning how to fight open hand WHILE accessing a firearm.

    Even if we practice drawing and shooting at close distances (0-3 feet) we are fooling ourselves if we think a bad guy is just going to stand there and let himself get shot. They will move. They will try to grab a gun and wrestle it away. They will deflect. And, yes, even with revolvers as well as semi-autos you may not get a shot off if the cylinder is stopped or the slide is pushed out of battery. Now you're fighting for your life as well as for your gun. Those are bad places to be in.

    A gun is one tool I can/will use in self defense ... I'm actively trying to better my training to use it appropriately and timely with other tools.
    You might want to remind folks, with a link, to your experience learning to use the TDI Kabar LE. MA is a larger base of knowledge than unarmed H2H. It includes things like knife skills and even firearms skills--though these are seldom touched on and are viewed separately as FOF training.

    Also, some new participants would benefit from a link to your article about taking on a MA instructor shortly after you moved to IA; at a SD demo for women, if I recall correctly. It was a great story with lots of important info beyond your personal experience.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You might want to remind folks, with a link, to your experience learning to use the TDI. MA is a larger base of knowledge than H2H. It includes things like knife skills and even firearms skills--though these are seldom touched on and are viewed separately as FOF training.

    Also, some new participants would benefit from a link to your article about taking on a MA instructor shortly after you moved to IA; at a SD demo for women, if I recall correctly. It was a great story with lots of important info beyond your personal experience.
    Thanks, Hopyard, I'll find them.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't weapons fighting (knife, gun, baton, etc) usually touched on in the more advanced stages of martial arts programs? There are so many of them it's hard to know who teaches what and when but from my limited knowledge one is in the program for a while before you get to working with weapons, right?

    I think even if you ARE going to eventually get to weapons training it's a good idea to seek out those classes individually as well ... such as taking a knife class or a close quarters gun fighting class, etc.

    I took a knife class with the Tactical Defense Institute (TDI) pretty much only because of an encounter I had during Force-on-Force.

    I was tackled. I made the mistake of drawing my gun. We wrestled over the gun for a few minutes and it was taken away from me and I was shot in the face. Afterward I was asked what I could have done differently and I said, "Well, maybe if I'd had a knife."
    The reply was, "Well, why didn't you have a knife?"

    Knowing just HAVING a tool doesn't mean you know how to use such a tool I enrolled in the TDI defensive knife class. I wrote an entire review of the class which you can view here.

    I wrote this in my review about what I found most valuable about the class:
    I learned more than I could have previously imagined and in the best way possible—by doing the work instead of just listening to a lecture or watching a video. Aside from the techniques of slashes and stabs some of the most important lessons I took away from the class have been the cardinal rules for drawing a weapon (distance or control), the speed of drawing and readiness of the fixed-blade vs the folder and how even the simplest of clothing items can frustrate the outcome of a slash but have little effect on the outcome of a stab. I was not the only one ditching my folder knife in favor of a fixed blade and many people purchased the TDI Law Enforcement knife before the end of the first day to replace their primary carry knife. Knife placement was always driven home as often you cannot draw your knife with your dominant hand and keeping your knife in a location where both hands have access to it is very important.
    And I almost mentioned the women's self defense class in my first post but didn't..lol.

    To my shame, I have not had any kind of formal, regular self defense hand-to-hand training. It's been on my list of things to obtain. But I have picked up a few things along the way, one of which is just the willingness to fight dirty and be ruthless. Something that is very much stifled in your average person today.. I couldn't find a link to that in the forum that was working so here is the story:

    I've made it no secret that I take self defense very seriously. Give me an opportunity to learn a way or means to defend myself and I will be happy to volunteer. Even if it's just a review of principles already learned, I am appreciative of the chance to review.

    So it should surprise no one that when a two hour self defense class for women was offered to members of our local YMCA for only $15 I eagerly signed up.

    Despite banged up knees from overworking them a week ago I hobbled my way to the Y this Monday afternoon and limped to the gym where the class was to be held. Knowing this was a general class for all types and experience levels I was not expecting to have to get very physical and therefore not overly worried about my bruised and aching knees. I figured I would listen, halfheartedly go through any maneuvers and then drag my aching legs out of the class at the end theoretically wiser than when I had entered.

    Upon arrival I was introduced to two men dressed in standard karate costume, compete with black belts tied around their waists. One man was bald, reaching his sixties and referred to as "Master." The second man was in his mid-thirties, and comfortable enough as an assistant to be the one upon whom the Master demonstrated his defensive moves.

    The class began with some thoughts on self defense, statistics and general rules that I had not only heard long ago but embraced. There was talk of brutality and preparing for pain and the sight of blood and pushing through feelings of fear and shock to act. We were instructed to leave behind feelings of violation upon being hit and act instead of taking the time to worry about being hit. I nodded my agreement and the ten of us gals paired up. We practiced basic standing defensive manipulations that I had already learned from my husband and most of the time I found myself explaining the gestures to my partner and allowing her to practice them on me rather than doing any practicing on her.

    Every now and then an instructor would come over and perfect a move or provide criticism or a variation.

    We did some striking work and as my darling husband has already expertly instructed me on the proper open-palmed strike I was happy to be the one who drove the instructor and his striking pad back a few extra inches.

    At least once the younger instructor showed a variation on me that included an elbow to my chin which consequently caused me to bite my lip producing a bit of blood I swallowed and continued on.

    When the other instructor followed up with some knee-kicking instruction by kicking me in the knee, however, I was about to ask to sit the rest of the class out, especially when the former instructor decided to show a second variation by kicking my other knee.

    Always ready to withstand any pain to learn, I let my knees buckle slightly, widened into a basic warrior stance and stood hunched but ready for whatever else they might bring.

    Finally a girl raised her hand and said, "But what do you do if an attacker gets you to the ground?"

    "Ah ha," the Master said, "Which transitions us perfectly to the next segment of our class: ground fighting."

    At this point the younger of the two instructors took over and asked for a volunteer. I wanted to volunteer but was not sure how my wounded knees would take ground fighting. When no one raised her hand he picked out a young gal to my left and asked her attack him as he lay on his back on a mat on the floor. He laid down and she inched forward and was already wincing before either of them touched.

    The Master was explaining some defensive positions and the younger black-belt was demonstrating them but still the girl just crouched there watching.

    "Hit me," the younger instructor instructed.

    The girl extended her hand but withdrew it before it came a foot from his face.

    "Hit him," the Master said.

    She reached out her hand again but this time the young instructor raised his own hand and the girl recoiled so fast you would have thought it was his intention to hit her instead of the other way around.

    He sighed and excused her, asking instead for a more confident assailant. Once more I wanted to raise my hand but the tenderness in my joints reasoned with me to keep silent. Again, when no one volunteered he chose a woman of athletic build wearing clothes fit for wrestling and limbering herself up on the sidelines. She had thick, toned muscles and I was sure she could do some damage to any human if she was able to apply herself.

    First she was to be the attacker and the instructor was to demonstrate the defensive postures we were to learn.

    The mock fight started as more of a grand circling while the woman ran around the mat looking for her opportunity to pounce. When she thought she saw an opening she would lung forward only to stop short and cower back.

    "I just want to run and jump," she told the Master and his response was, "Then do it!"

    She didn't.

    Instead she inched her way in and the younger instructor allowed an opening for her to start feigning that she was hitting him.

    "Don't pretend to hit me," he said, "Hit me!"

    She attempted a few stronger slaps and seeing that was about as much aggression as he was going to get out of her he demonstrated defending himself against her soft blows and some more defensive instruction was given.

    It was then time to switch roles. Instead of being the attacker, this time the woman was to be the intended victim and she was to use what she had just learned against her more powerful aggressor.

    The young instructor first wrestled her to the ground rather quickly and was immediately upon her. She was quick to curl into a defensive position protecting her face and head but she squeezed her eyes shut and lay there waiting.

    The instructor began to slap her around the arms and head, lightly at first. When she did not respond he began to hit her harder. The more aggressive he became the less she did until the Master screamed, "FIGHT BACK!"

    The woman shouted back, "I don't know how! Instruct me."

    So as the younger instructor continued to slap at her as the elder instructor talked her through certain maneuvers with her knees and elbows. Try though he may he could not seem to get her to open her eyes.

    "You need to keep your eyes open and look for opportunities to strike back," he would say.

    "I don't want to hurt him," she said.

    "Don't worry about that," came the answer, "just fight!"

    When the younger instructor let her up you could see the anger and violation in her eyes. She was getting mad and she was ready to go again.

    The instructors asked her if she was okay, she said she was. He asked her if she just had a problem being man-handled and if she wanted to stop and she insisted she was ready to try again.

    This time the instructor did not progressively attack. He took her down quickly and immediately started his assault with a new level of aggression, all the while explaining that if he were really out to hurt her or rape her he could have hit her harder here or torn her clothes off there or pinned her in this or that position.

    He would often pin her in very undesirable positions such as sitting on her belly or even on her stomach from behind but would ease up when her clenched groans of frustration indicated she was angered at herself for not being able to fight him effectively.

    The anger radiated from her face and while she put up a decent fight with her knees and with twists she still kept her eyes tightly closed and finally attempted just to crawl away while voicing through clenched teeth, "I am so pissed off."

    You could see the fight in her, the want and the desire to unleash on him but something was holding her back. Whether it was a sense of propriety or fear it was unclear but what was clear was that there was a lot of fight in her that she was simple incapable of unleashing at that time.

    I could take it no more. I wanted a crack at him.

    "Anyone else want to volunteer?"

    I was quick to raise my hand. My knees be damned.

    "Hold these," I said, giving the Master my glasses.

    I took my hair out of its pony-tail shook out my locks and said, "I'm ready."

    After that things went really fast.

    The instructor hit me hard and fast and I was on the ground but as he rushed me and before he could get on top of me I threw up a knee and kicked him hard in the thigh spinning him off balance.

    "GOOD!" the Master said to my right.

    Seeing more fight in me the instructor attacked again, hard, and I covered my head, lashing out with my feet. Whenever he would get above me I would bring up a knee to his groin and lash out with a hammer hit or kick.

    Again and again he took after me and again and again I kicked him off all while screaming for help at the top of my lungs.

    Within me my fight was boiling and I had every intention of letting it spill out.

    He finally got through my defensive and started his slapping. I would watch his hands through my arms cradling my head and every time he drew back to hit me I would lash out with a hammer hit to any vital area I could reach, be it the ribs, chest, face or groin.

    I hooked my legs around his as they had taught and tried to roll him but he countered and continued hitting me. When I tried again he had to brace himself against a fall and I took the opportunity to reach up and grab his ear, giving it a hard and vicious twist while kicking like a mad woman.

    He yelled and was off me but back again in a matter of milliseconds. I was aware that I was screaming but I can't be held accountable for the words coming out of my mouth. I had found that little switch in my head filled with rage and fight, I'd flipped it and there was no turning it off until this fight was over.

    I bit him and again he back off but only to hit me more. Again, watching through defensive arms I looked for opportunities to strike or twist away. Finding one I reached up and grabbed at his throat, but being a seasoned fighter he quickly tucked his chin and moved his face away.

    I twisted and curled and for the next few moments we rolled on the mat while I screamed and bucked, kicked, punched, kneed and elbowed my way through his slaps and blows.

    The noise around us was little more than a hum or cheers and instructions from the Master I tried to listen to through the adrenalin and desire to just wail on the man hitting me.

    Later he would tell me that this was when I bit him in the arm pit and gave him a good twist to his left nipple but I don't remember that.

    Finally, an opportunity opened up that all the fight in me had to take. After pinning me to the mat by the upper body he rose just enough to get a better angle and I reached between his legs, grabbed his crotch with all my might and gave a strong and mighty twist. He immediately jumped off and I heard the girls around me whistle and cheer.

    There was a, "You go girl!" in there somewhere.

    He didn't stay off me for long but this time I was able to regroup and when he came back at me it was at the consequence of getting both of my feet to his legs and abdomen.

    He practically laid on top of me and I grabbed a fist full of his hair, clenching my fingers and twisting. I countered by grabbing his chin with my other hand and attempting to twist his head. When he lifted off of me to break my grip I elbowed him in the groin. As he tried to grab me again I clawed my way around his body until I was digging my nails into his thigh

    "Whoa! I think that's enough," the Master said and the girls cheered and clapped as we both crawled off the mat gasping.

    His shirt was thrown up and rustled, his hair was a mess and his face was flush with heat and sweat. I glared at him until I could calm down and then I smiled. He smiled back.

    "Wow," he said. "She's tiny and she was kicking my ass. What can you learn from this?"

    "To never give up," one lady said.

    Another said, "To keep fighting."

    While another said, "Fight dirty." And the room laughed.

    I said through a hoarse voice and panting breaths, "To be ruthless."

    The Master nodded, "She fought with no rules and there were several times, if he had not been wearing protection, that it's very likely she would have made the perfect debilitating blow that would have allowed her to escape... Remember, from this moment on, there are no rules."

    When he asked if anyone had any questions I raised my hand, looked at the younger instructor still catching his breath and said "Did I hurt you?"

    He smiled again and said, "Thank God I was wearing a cup or you would have. I think you invented a few moves in there too."

    Everyone laughed.

    While I understood that he could have whipped me up and down and sideways if he had really wanted to it was enough for me to know that I wore him out and got in a few surprising shots.

    I collected my glasses and limped out to the car, my knees battered but proud. I saw the smile on my husband's face broaden as I told him of my ground fight.

    As we were pulling out of the parking lot a gal in our class stopped the car and when my husband rolled down the window she said, "You need to be careful with this one. She can fight."

    He just smiled and said, "Where do you think she learned most of it from?"

    When he asked me why I took my hair out I told him that a pony-tail makes for a perfect and completely controlling hand hold. While loose hair can also be grabbed it's easier to pull your head away and let an attacker rip out just a small handful of hair and get back to the fight than have your whole head controlled with all of your hair.

    He smiled. "I'm so proud of you. My kick-ass princess."

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    The reason that some 'street fighters' have an edge is not because they use foul tactics, it's because they are just durable and tough and can use anger. Aggression is about 75% success in fighting. Of course, you have to have some technique. Some really good fighters have never actually fought but are rugby players or football players. They're used to physical contact and enduring pain. More important than technique though is the method of training and sheer physical conditioning.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Thanks, Hopyard, I'll find them.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't weapons fighting (knife, gun, baton, etc) usually touched on in the more advanced stages of martial arts programs?
    I think you are going to find that this varies all over the map depending on school and instructor and art.

    I started with a stick art, Modern Arnis, which uses the sticks both as a weapon and as a training tool for empty handed work. The techniques transition very smoothly into knife defenses and disarms. I didn't stay with it for a variety of reasons, mostly the instructor was my friend and that really didn't quite work out---I chose to keep him for a friend.

    After a couple years break, I retired. Got bored silly at home one day and found a Krav school. Well, it turned out that the guy was really more into MMA style--which IMO isn't all that good for a street fight. Krav of course is.

    I got a mixed bag of techniques taken from everywhere-- Krav, Arnis, traditional Karate, traditional Taekwando, and somewhere in all of that we worked on using a flashlight, as a weapon, knife defense, gun disarms (not to be tried in real life unless you are sure you are going to be dead), and the bo-staff.

    Initially I detested working with the bo-staff, but have come to really like. Now obviously no one walks around the street with one, but I have had the need to set things like hoes, rakes, shovels, at various spots on my lawn for ready availability "in case" and each can be used as a bo-staff; so too a rifle.

    As I have said here many times, I'm no tough guy. I have no idea if any of this stuff would actually work in any given situation against any BG--especially given the aggressor's potential for surprise. But, my body has definitely benefited from doing these things and I at least have some things I can do short of going for a gun.

    I thought from your post about the TDI training that that was rather impressive stuff. I keep promising myself to buy a kabar training knife and play with it at the gym but my "cheap" nature has kept me from spending the money.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  13. #42
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    My son is traditional Taekwando for the last 12 years now. He is now acheived a second degree Edon black belt. I'm grateful for the teaching and the wisdom generated by Master Belvins to teach him he cannot stop bullets with his teeth. Wisdom is also a part of the teachings.
    Hopyard likes this.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by gruntingfrog View Post
    Before I begin, I must say I am in no way attempting to disparage Aikido. I've always thought it was an elegant martial art and have been interested in taking classes for a while, so I'm asking a legitimate question that I would like to know the answer to.

    Every time I see an Aikido video like this one, it seems as if the participants are going along with the throw or move. It seems too effortless. I've never seen anyone appear to attempt to stop the throw by striking, locking legs, or any other defensive counter taught in many martial arts. Is it simply that these are demonstrations not live sparring? Or is it that the moves are that effective when performed by a skilled practitioner? I can only assume there are counters to these moves taught in Aikido, so why don't I ever see them?

    I'm sure I could keep peppering you all with questions, so I'll just start there. Thanks!
    Congratulations on your decision to pursue Aikido training.

    This is randori - free form - unscripted free style sparring. A couple of techniques - one for each player - after :55. Hope it helps.
    YouTube - ‪Aikido Randori with resistance‬‏
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    Congratulations on your decision to pursue Aikido training.

    This is randori - free form - unscripted free style sparring. A couple of techniques - one for each player - after :55. Hope it helps.
    YouTube - ‪Aikido Randori with resistance‬‏
    That absolutely helps. I found some more Aikido Randori videos on YouTube as well and it's so much easier to see how these techniques play out. It's funny how you don't find these videos if you just search for "Aikido" -only demonstrations. THANKS!
    Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gruntingfrog View Post
    Wow. That's a lot of really good information and it explains a lot. I'm going to have to see about getting into a school.

    Adric22, we're both in the DFW area. Where would you recommend going? I'd be more interested in learning the actual defensive art and not the new-age feel good, unicorns prancing in a field of daisies version MFCMB mentioned.

    JDLewis, thanks for pointing me to that YouTube video (YouTube - STREET FIGHT REAL SELF DEFENSE). It definitely shows what these moves look like at full speed against someone who is not "rolling out of them" as Adric22 mentioned. It also shows how they would be used in a practical situation.
    Hey no problem. Man all this talking about aikido makes me want to go get back into martial arts. I have a place about 10 minutes away that teach aikido I'm almost think about going and joining.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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